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Thread: Question about legality (True Gore related)

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    Registered User Alex K.'s Avatar
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    Question about legality (True Gore related)

    In the Monte Cazazza mondo film True Gore, there's a scene where a pig is tortured with a blowtorch. If I were to include this scene in a film of mine, would this be legal? I have a point to make with it, I have no intention of being shocking for the sake of shocking.
    "Ah, by god's balls what licentiousness!"

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    Re: Question about legality (True Gore related)

    That sounds horrible. Funny that I'm a devout beef, chicken and pork eater but I really dislike animal cruelty like that. (I was born in the Chinese year of the Pig, too). Hmm..

    It might vary country by country. The UK probably wouldn't allow it as I think the BBFC has laws against animal cruelty. Other countries I couldn't say, but it might be treated differently depending where you tried to screen it.

    I hope the soul of that pig comes back as an ass-kicking ninja and whups its killers mercilessly.

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    Addict... Ernesto C's Avatar
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    Re: Question about legality (True Gore related)

    Hmm, From what i understand from copyright this is illigal unless this footage is in the public domain... Or if you purchase the rights from the legal owner of the footage...

    How ever, I saw this footage in True Gore and in at least 3 other shockumentarys, Quite disturbing stuff! What kind of Film are you making?

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    Re: Question about legality (True Gore related)

    I believe that clip in True Gore is just some found vivisection footage to research the impact of burns on flesh (this sort of research is, or at least was, way more common than you might think; with the justification being that pig skin is very similar to human skin); so it's not like the directors just torched a pig for the hell of it to make the shockumentary. And I somehow doubt that Cazazza and Causey themselves had the actual legal rights (if any) to the clip, more likely it's just something they stumbled upon on the shelves of some research library.

    Here's, for example, one academic article that includes photos of inflicted pig burns and describes the procedure as following:

    For the purpose of this study, simple methods of inflicting third degree burns were used. A blow torch flame at a standard temperature of 1400F and a set distance of 6 cm. from the skin surface was used in the first half of the experiment. Later burns were inflicted by usin a wrought iron brand at 1300F. in contact with skin for ten seconds. The blow torch was used to stimulate the clinical flash burn, the wrought iron brand to simulate the clinical contact burn.
    It stands to reason that some of these sorts of experiments were undoubtedly filmed, and this sort of venue would be my guess as to where that footage in True Gore comes from (so if anyone wants some fresh animal experimentation footage for a new shocku, I'd bet looking into these sorts of studies to see which ones have video recordings on file would be a good approach).


    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Thorne View Post
    It might vary country by country. The UK probably wouldn't allow it as I think the BBFC has laws against animal cruelty. Other countries I couldn't say, but it might be treated differently depending where you tried to screen it.
    I don't know anything about legality and whatnot, but just based on observation I think the general rule is that the cruelty is OK as long as it's not inflicted for the purpose of making the film. Two recent examples that seem to showcase this:

    The 2007 Dispatches documentary Supermarket Secrets featured some grissly poultry footage:

    The first of the two programme features secret filming which uncovers the horrific conditions inside a chicken broiler house preparing chickens for a company which supplies all the major supermarkets. One study carried out by a professor from Cambridge University revealed that 82% of chickens bought in supermarkets had hockburns – a tell-tale sign of poor animal welfare caused by sitting in litter. Jane Moore shows how to examine chickens for hockburns.
    and this was allowed, while on the other hand just a couple weeks ago ITV was fined a couple thousand pounds for showing contestants kill and eat a rat:

    Chief Inspector David Oshannessy, from the RSPCA, said ITV was fined A$3,000 (1,903) and will pay A$2,576 in costs.

    He said: "It's a reasonable result. It reflects the fact that all animals are protected by the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act.

    "The animal was killed for a TV show, that's not appropriate. The raw footage indicates that, from the first attempt, it took about 90 seconds before it actually died.

    "The legislation says that an animal can be killed for human consumption provided it does not cause unnecessary suffering. Had it been killed and it was over and done with, we might not be having this conversation."
    Last edited by Ed H; 02-22-2010 at 02:52 AM.

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    Registered User Alex K.'s Avatar
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    Re: Question about legality (True Gore related)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernesto C View Post

    How ever, I saw this footage in True Gore and in at least 3 other shockumentarys, Quite disturbing stuff! What kind of Film are you making?
    A surrealist/experimental picture. There's a remark Bunuel's Son makes in an interview for Un Chien Andalou, that people aren't affected by the murder of cows and donkey's (as in Las Hurdes/Land Without Bread) but that they would be repulsed by the murder of cute animals like dogs and cats. I found that interesting.
    "Ah, by god's balls what licentiousness!"

    Marquis de Sade.

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    Addict... Ernesto C's Avatar
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    Re: Question about legality (True Gore related)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincant A. View Post
    A surrealist/experimental picture. There's a remark Bunuel's Son makes in an interview for Un Chien Andalou, that people aren't affected by the murder of cows and donkey's (as in Las Hurdes/Land Without Bread) but that they would be repulsed by the murder of cute animals like dogs and cats. I found that interesting.
    That reminds me of a scene in Antonio Climati/Mario Morra's 'Savage Man, Savage Beast'. The scene where bears are hunting for salmon and a little girl asks the question; But what about the poor fish? The narrator continues about the discrimination of species. You might want to check it out , For the sake of mankind...

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    Registered User Alex K.'s Avatar
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    Re: Question about legality (True Gore related)

    I've seen it. Good Mondo. I too, thought that scene was very interesting.
    "Ah, by god's balls what licentiousness!"

    Marquis de Sade.

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    it's grim up north Jack J's Avatar
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    Re: Question about legality (True Gore related)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincant A. View Post
    In the Monte Cazazza mondo film True Gore, there's a scene where a pig is tortured with a blowtorch. If I were to include this scene in a film of mine, would this be legal? I have a point to make with it, I have no intention of being shocking for the sake of shocking.
    I suggest you send Ian F. a PM and ask him. As you might already know he's our shyster (in a good way) with a special interest in copyright issues around here.
    Last edited by Jack J; 02-24-2010 at 11:33 PM.

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