Four Flies on Grey Velvet coming to R1 DVD

[Wim C.]

Originally Posted by Gary B.

Back to the bloody stump of the dead horse - I just watched this on my OPPO DV-980H player, bumped up the audio pitch 3 notches, and it sounded perfect. Just remember to switch it back to 0 when you put in another disc...

Great! Thanks for that tip - never noticed my player had that option.

[Michael Mackenzie]

Just to thrash that poor dead horse's carcass even further, here's my own review of the disc. I'm not sure whether people have any interest in reading the exact same information yet again, but here it is for anyone who cares to take a look:

http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content/id...ey-velvet.html

[Troy Howarth]

A very well written and fair review, Michael.

[Aaron D.]

Originally Posted by Michael Mackenzie

Just to thrash that poor dead horse's carcass even further, here's my own review of the disc. I'm not sure whether people have any interest in reading the exact same information yet again, but here it is for anyone who cares to take a look:

http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content/id...ey-velvet.html

As usual Michael, a very good job at reviewing a Euro cult title. The side by side audio samples are a simple and informative way to state the facts of the case about the audio controversy.

As far as your "spoiler" alert at the top, people should damn well know you mean it!

One thought -- it has been repeated quite a bit that DEEP RED was "a dramatic shift" in Argento's filmography, but after seeing FLIES again last week, I'm not so sure. DEEP RED is generally regarded as being a more successful blend of the elements of his earlier work, and where it differs most notably is the rock score (a huge element). But FLIES has the same enigmatic, giallo-become-a-dream writing of RED and quite literally looks like RED quite a bit, to the point of personal preference for me. With FLIES out of the picture so long on video, writers seem to have deciding on calling it a "missing link" between the earlier films and DEEP RED. But I would tend to disagree, seeing that Argento's first three thrillers all have different atmospheres from one another -- with FLIES actually most like the next one he would make, DEEP RED.

Put another way: at what point does the innovation of a particular idea in a director's work (the striking opening of FOUR FLIES with the musicians, moving to the curtains being pulled back on the old theater in POV for the intro of the killer) become considered a "rehearsal" for the same setpiece in their more popular film (the musicians rehearsing in DEEP RED moving to the curtains pulled back in POV revealing the theater that introduces the killer)?

[Troy Howarth]

As I mention in my review, I think Four Flies is the essential link between the more standard Bird and Cat and the baroque madness of Deep Red.

[Michael Mackenzie]

Originally Posted by Troy Howarth

A very well written and fair review, Michael.

Originally Posted by Aaron D.

As usual Michael, a very good job at reviewing a Euro cult title. The side by side audio samples are a simple and informative way to state the facts of the case about the audio controversy.

Thank yuo to you both.

Originally Posted by Aaron D.

As far as your "spoiler" alert at the top, people should damn well know you mean it!

Oh, I know! I find it impossible to write about Argento's films without discussing the identity of the killer, because that aspect is such a fundamental part of why I find them so interesting. I actually tried very hard to avoid explicitly mentioning the killer's identity when I wrote this one, but eventually I realised it was impossible. I suppose, in my defence, virtually everyone knows who the killer is given that one of the widely circulated promotional photos makes it pretty obvious.

One thought -- it has been repeated quite a bit that DEEP RED was "a dramatic shift" in Argento's filmography, but after seeing FLIES again last week, I'm not so sure. DEEP RED is generally regarded as being a more successful blend of the elements of his earlier work, and where it differs most notably is the rock score (a huge element). But FLIES has the same enigmatic, giallo-become-a-dream writing of RED and quite literally looks like RED quite a bit, to the point of personal preference for me. With FLIES out of the picture so long on video, writers seem to have deciding on calling it a "missing link" between the earlier films and DEEP RED. But I would tend to disagree, seeing that Argento's first three thrillers all have different atmospheres from one another -- with FLIES actually most like the next one he would make, DEEP RED.

Put another way: at what point does the innovation of a particular idea in a director's work (the striking opening of FOUR FLIES with the musicians, moving to the curtains being pulled back on the old theater in POV for the intro of the killer) become considered a "rehearsal" for the same setpiece in their more popular film (the musicians rehearsing in DEEP RED moving to the curtains pulled back in POV revealing the theater that introduces the killer)?

That's a valid point, and I can certainly see where you're coming from. FLIES is definitely the closest of the Animal Trilogy to DEEP RED in terms of its tone and its willingness to drift away from the narrative in favour of set-pieces. CAT, conversely, is probably the most "real world" of the three. However, I would still stand by my statement that DEEP RED is the point at which Argento's style changes significantly. Despite its dreamlike atmosphere, FLIES is still very much a traditional giallo with a beginning, middle and end. It's with DEEP RED that stylistic excess really begins to overwhelm the narrative (and that's despite it having a terrific script by Bernardino Zapponi), something that would obviously become even more pronounced with SUSPIRIA and INFERNO. To me, the difference between FLIES and DEEP RED is the difference between slightly off-kilter and outright insanity.

[Aaron G]

OK, so from the consensus here, should I give my drachmas to the company and buy this film, or should I buy a better product? Will I notice?

someone please give me the wisdom of Solomon on this one, actually Michael Mackenzie has done if for me..The audio problem is ridiculous, the pitch change has quietened it somewhat, if there's one thing I hate in a film, it's crappy audio, especially for dialogue!!

I'm not gonna pay 26bucks Australian plus shipping for a half-arsed film. Sorry MYA!

[Troy Howarth]

The film itself isn't half-arsed; it's the transfer.

[Aaron G]

Originally Posted by Troy Howarth

The film itself isn't half-arsed; it's the transfer.

Yeah I know, that's why I want the film and not their product! I'd buy it sight unseen if it was a decent DVD, but it aint!

The customer is always right!

[Troy Howarth]

Well, all I can say is, I bought the disc so I can't be accused of not supporting it as a release. I was also open to receiving the fandub, so I feel like I did things the right way.

[Michael Leslie]

Originally Posted by Troy Howarth

The film itself isn't half-arsed; it's the transfer.

Flogging that dead horse again, where's an available better transfer of it?

It's not the transfer that's half-arsed... Mya messed up one of the audio portions, and that the source they used had irreparable print damage on some dialogue scenes which are cut.

I've done the same as you, Troy. I bought the release, and put a copy of the fandub into the box.

[Ray Kanne]

Originally Posted by Michael Leslie

It's not the transfer that's half-arsed... Mya messed up one of the audio portions, and that the source they used had irreparable print damage on some dialogue scenes which are cut.

There is only one audio option on the disc for non Italian speakers. They neglected to add subtitles to the Italian track so it's basically worthless to anyone who don't speak Italian.

[Robert Seletsky]

There is no question about audio pitch problems with the Mya FLIES. I am a professional musician and it stands out a mile. Mya used an Italian original film source with its audio at normal 24fps theatrical speed and pitch (same effect as NTSC). Thus, the Italian-language transfer is normal.

But since Mya had no rights to any English version, they ported over the English audio from the well-known German PAL private disc, slowing it down to match the theatrical/NTSC speed. What went wrong is that they didn't know or care that the German disc had been pitch-adjusted down so the PAL speed-up didn't sound so chipmunk-like. It runs at +4% PAL speed-up but it was digitally adjusted to sound at theatrical pitch. When Mya slowed that audio track's speed to a correct 24fps, the pitch dropped to -4% below normal.

They must have known something was wrong since they grafted on the opening and closing music from the Italian track which was correct in both speed and pitch--actually confusing the issue. In between, however, everything runs at the right *speed*, but because of the German PAL disc's pitch-lowering, it sounds a semitone low. Comparing the background music of the English and Italian audio on the Mya disc shows this clearly and painfully--as do comparisons of the spoken voices. Mya should have digitally raised the pitch to undo the -4% artificial adjustment that the German folks made for the PAL disc.

The practice of digitally separating speed from pitch to produce a more normal sounding PAL speed-up DVD is common. I am worried because Mya is slated to do a L'ORRIBILE SEGRETO DEL DR. HICHCOCK: if they include the Italian audio from the Medusa disc--as I'm sure they would, they could make another mess: like the private German PAL FLIES, Medusa also digitally lowered HICHCOCK's pitch from PAL raised pitch level to normal pitch while, of necessity, retaining actual PAL +4% speed. I commented on all this after Mya tried to explain it away here: http://myadvd.blogspot.com/2009/03/mya-responds.html People should try to get to Mya and make them understand the problem so they don't make any more ghastly mistakes--so easy to avoid even with home software.

[Troy Howarth]

It's a pity Mya seems intent on making excuses for their mistakes - it only makes them look worse. Mistakes happen, I know that, but to continually try to explain them away like this is more than a little annoying.

[John L.]

41 posts on this thread ,so if my question below has been asked then my apologies.

I take it that you all know that the Argento's have put an injunction on Four Flies to stop the Italian release claiming they own the non US rights and Paramount still own the US rights ?


EDIT: As I have just seen the post for which the above question is answered.