PDA

View Full Version : Explicitly Gory Action Films



AdamAskov
11-15-2010, 11:34 AM
Doesn't matter what sub-genre. Two that instantly came to mind was Robocop and Total Recall. But I can't really remember too many others. Reccos please! :p

Alex K.
11-15-2010, 11:37 AM
Rambo 4, Mad Foxes, The Last Hunter, The Story of Ricky, Jungle heat, and The Exterminator.

Jack J
11-15-2010, 11:54 AM
I would have made a couple of suggestions but I've just been told by another member in another thread (http://www.avmaniacs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=852434&postcount=33) that I'm pro censorship and I'm too shocked to even think of gory action films right now. :D :D :D


PS: Alex K mentions a handful of film I personally would describe as "war movies" instead of "action movies" (but I'm not right at all, ever! Check the above mentioned thread) but if we include war flicks you can include many of the trashy Vietnam War movies like the entire Rambo series, etc. RAMBO 4 is probably the most violent of the lot.

Alex K.
11-15-2010, 11:56 AM
Rambo 4 is the most violent Action flick of all time. I've seen just about everything, nothing comes close. Mad Foxes could be the sleaziest action flick ever made. Certainly gory too.

Jack J
11-15-2010, 12:01 PM
"That" scene in JUNGLE HEAT (aka Last Breath) is pretty awesome (in a gory way) too:


<object width="640" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4liFv2HI8P4&rel=0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4liFv2HI8P4&rel=0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></embed></object>

Alex K.
11-15-2010, 12:08 PM
I posted that same scene on Youtube, only difference is my version was taken from the German DVD. Never saw it completely uncut before. Thanks.

Jack J
11-15-2010, 12:11 PM
You're welcome. It's from the Japanese VHS which (to the best of my knowledge) is the only uncut and letterboxed version.

Jason C
11-15-2010, 12:22 PM
COMMANDO (1985)
Bill Duke impaled on a table leg. Saw blade kill. A lot of gory machine gun kills.

PREDATOR (1987)

I never thought of TOTAL RECALL as overly gory.

AdamAskov
11-15-2010, 12:31 PM
I never thought of TOTAL RECALL as overly gory.

What I love about Paul Verhoeven's films is way it looks when people get shot. Small pieces of flying everywhere and loads of blood. Looks brutal as fuck. Cameron's films fx never had any of that.

Alex K.
11-15-2010, 12:52 PM
Predator 2 is gorier than the first if we're including Sci Fi/Action/Horror films.

Jack J
11-15-2010, 01:08 PM
Predator 2 is gorier than the first if we're including Sci Fi/Action/Horror films.

Have you watched Bruno Mattei's highly entertaining "sequel" ROBOWAR? If not I'll recommend you do. :cool:


<object width="640" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/I3NOa8WfrKo&rel=0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/I3NOa8WfrKo&rel=0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></embed></object>

Steve R
11-15-2010, 02:42 PM
Versus
2000 Japanese action/horror film
directed by Ryuhei Kitamura.

Randy Thomas G
11-15-2010, 05:32 PM
Riki-Oh

Vengeance and Boxer from Shantung by Cheh Chang

Paul Francis
11-15-2010, 08:28 PM
Since the OP said he doesn't care what sub-genre, I'll throw in Five Element Ninjas, Shogun Assassin and Brotherhood of the Wolf.

For a film set in modern times, Hong Kong Godfather want blood,you got it! Another recent HK actioner/triad fim was Fatal Move with Samo and Simon Yam and a bunch of others. It had some brutal scenes that I actually thought went too far, like a girl who is tied up getting her fingernails ripped out but I guess it had the intended effect -that these were very unpleasant guys.

I'm gonna have to re-watch Rambo 4 because it didn't strike me as being that over the top , I thought Expendables was more violent.

Phil B.
11-15-2010, 08:39 PM
The Lone Wolf and Cub films and the Lady Snowblood films have some of the most poetic arterial blood gushers I've seen. :)

Randy Thomas G
11-16-2010, 02:20 AM
There's an underrated HK action flick by Johnnie To called THE BIG HEAT that has some remarkably gory sequences in it, someone once compared it to Cronenberg for it's clinical obsession with mutilated flesh.

Mike T
11-16-2010, 04:05 AM
If you can get a hold of Jean-Marie Palardy's White Fire, that's worth a look!

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/wbfbD7O_QTM?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/wbfbD7O_QTM?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Not the greatest action thriller ever made, but certainly one of those unexpectedly gory ones from the early eigthies. One of our VHS gurus might know where to locate a copy from, as I haven't seen one anywhere for over fifteen or so years!

Robin Bougie
11-16-2010, 05:01 AM
ESCAPE 2000 (aka TURKEY SHOOT) from 1982 is a pretty awesome example of an action film with some great gore scenes. It's such a fun film to watch with friends and some booze!

AdamAskov
11-16-2010, 06:46 AM
There's an underrated HK action flick by Johnnie To called THE BIG HEAT that has some remarkably gory sequences in it, someone once compared it to Cronenberg for it's clinical obsession with mutilated flesh.

This one sounds great! Could you recommend me a good dvd version of it?

Aaron G
11-16-2010, 06:48 AM
John Wu's THE KILLER? The Beat Tikashi movies? THE LAST BOY SCOUT?

oh and the opening 5 minutes of James Shitenhaus's THE SOLDIER! :D

Chris Kewley
11-16-2010, 08:16 AM
Punisher:War Zone
Ninja(2009)
Running Scared(2006)
Kick Ass
Out For Justice
Planet Terror, maybe a stretch
Machete,for that matter
Die Hard

Jack J
11-16-2010, 07:51 PM
This one sounds great! Could you recommend me a good dvd version of it?

BIG HEAT is great! And it's even got Waise Lee as the hero (Waise Lee was the slimy coward in A Better Tomorrow). Fortune Star/Joy Sales re-released it not long ago. Afair they even corrected the subs. Get it from DDDHouse (it's only HK$40):
http://dddhouse.com/v3/product_details.php?ProductID=6118


.

Alfred Chamberlain
11-16-2010, 10:28 PM
Invasion U.S.A.

Randy Thomas G
11-17-2010, 02:11 AM
BIG HEAT is great! And it's even got Waise Lee as the hero (Waise Lee was the slimy coward in A Better Tomorrow). Fortune Star/Joy Sales re-released it not long ago. Afair they even corrected the subs. Get it from DDDHouse (it's only HK$40):
http://dddhouse.com/v3/product_details.php?ProductID=6118


Thanks Jack, it is a great film imo. The brutality is unlike anything in later To.

Mike T
11-17-2010, 03:54 AM
The brutality is unlike anything in later To.

Mind you, it's not really entirely To's film per se. Both he and the other hired director, Andrew Kam, were both fired by Tsui Hark before Tsui finished the film himself with his regular AD, David Chung Chi-Man. TBH, the gore and stylised visuals are more akin to Kam (as evidenced in his later High Voltage and Heart of a Killer) and Tsui and Chung themselves than early To of the period.

Am fairly sure Tsui fired both Kam and To, who worked successively, as he wasn't happy with their work -- and don't forget, back in that period ('87 - '88) To was a guy with only a few features and a lot of TV work under his belt and not the man of movie-power he is today. Whereas Tsui was the HK movie wonderkid who could do no wrong with huge box-office behind him. Funny how those roles reversed over the years... ;)

Jon H.
12-01-2010, 04:31 PM
If you can get a hold of Jean-Marie Palardy's White Fire, that's worth a look!
Not the greatest action thriller ever made, but certainly one of those unexpectedly gory ones from the early eigthies. One of our VHS gurus might know where to locate a copy from, as I haven't seen one anywhere for over fifteen or so years!

Has anyone seen the US dvd of this? I just noticed it on amazon. Probably a vhs-quality bootleg, but is it uncut? I absolutely have to see this flick!

I know there's a French dvd in widescreen as well, but it seems to be OOP. Probably only in French language anyway.

Shane K
12-01-2010, 04:46 PM
Has anyone seen the US dvd of this? I just noticed it on amazon. Probably a vhs-quality bootleg, but is it uncut? I absolutely have to see this flick!

I know there's a French dvd in widescreen as well, but it seems to be OOP. Probably only in French language anyway.

I had it, and got rid of it... horrendous hack-job of a bootleg.

Jon H.
12-01-2010, 04:51 PM
I had it, and got rid of it... horrendous hack-job of a bootleg.

THAT bad? Horrendous video and audio and compression then I assume? Guess I had better look for a vhs on ebay in its place!

Magnus Wersen
12-01-2010, 05:15 PM
BIG HEAT is great! And it's even got Waise Lee as the hero (Waise Lee was the slimy coward in A Better Tomorrow). Fortune Star/Joy Sales re-released it not long ago. Afair they even corrected the subs. Get it from DDDHouse (it's only HK$40):
http://dddhouse.com/v3/product_details.php?ProductID=6118


.

I bought it and I enjoyed it immensely. Thanks a lot, my masked danish friend! :D

Jack J
12-01-2010, 05:38 PM
I bought it and I enjoyed it immensely. Thanks a lot, my masked danish friend! :D

You're welcome, my headband wearing friend. For your next Dddhouse order you might wanna consider the new TIGER CAGE (http://enlejemordersertilbage.blogspot.com/search/label/Tiger%20Cage%20trilogy) dvds. :D

Magnus Wersen
12-01-2010, 05:52 PM
You're welcome, my headband wearing friend. For your next Dddhouse order you might wanna consider the new TIGER CAGE (http://enlejemordersertilbage.blogspot.com/search/label/Tiger%20Cage%20trilogy) dvds. :D

Sounds interesting. They're not that expensive so I guess I'll have to buy them and check them out. Thanks for the tip!:)

Terry Carpenter
12-01-2010, 06:23 PM
Jack,you have just made my gourd go boom.

Robin Bougie
12-01-2010, 08:47 PM
I always assumed I'd seen the TIGER CAGE movies, but now I realized I was thinking of the TIGER ON BEAT movies. (The first of which has the best dueling chainsaw scene in movie history, by the way) So now I need to get these! Thanks for the heads up, Jack!

Steve R
12-01-2010, 10:15 PM
That chainsaw battle was was neat.

Still for gory, shocking and over the top HK fare, Story of Ricky is tough to beat. That was one of the first HK films I saw that I seriously thought what in the Hell are these guys up to? Exploding heads, a guy gets fed into a meat grinder, fists literaly rip right into people. Torture, mayhem abounds. And the warden's kid is just looking to get throttled. Great stuff.

Jack J
12-02-2010, 12:34 AM
Jack,you have just made my gourd go boom.

Cool! (eh, I think :o ). And thanks, Robin! Yeah, those TIGER CAGE films are highly entertaining and the new Fortune Star/Joy Sales DVDs are great. Many of their re-releases are non-remastered but fortunately these three films have been granted the remaster treatment! The only thing that isn't remastered is the subtitles which are still in wonky English - but at least they're subtitled. A translator who works for Joy Sales said on another board that FS wouldn't let JS do new subs for their remastered titles. I'm not sure I understand FS's strategy here as they have no problem with JS doing new subs for their non-remastered DVDs. :confused:
Anyhoo, purists (like me) will also be pleased to learn that the DVDs carry the original Cantonese mono track amongst the selection of audio tracks.

They're available from Hkflix at $17 + postage, but even those of you in the US can save by getting them from DDDHouse in HK where the price is $11 + postage (DDD are reliable & very quick).


<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/kf1F0QuFC18?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kf1F0QuFC18?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

Mike T
12-02-2010, 01:20 AM
A translator who works for Joy Sales said on another board that FS wouldn't let JS do new subs for their remastered titles. I'm not sure I understand FS's strategy here as they have no problem with JS doing new subs for their non-remastered DVDs...

Just a FYI (for Jack and everyone else reading): At last point of reference, Tin Lun Lau stated that he hadn't worked for Joy Sales in over a year, or more -- and that was months ago.

As for new (English) subtitles on the non-remastered range -- this practice ceased well over a couple of years ago, maybe longer. Some of the more recently released "Legendary Collection" titles that I've purchased exhibit the same old mangled English subtitles or, on one occasion, what appear to be Chinese translations run through a function akin to Babelfish*. I have one of the seventies titles, Ironside 426 (released 15/08/08), which is virtually unintelligible for almost 60% of its running time due to the appalling English translation.

Over the last couple of years, the quality of the English subtitles on the non-remastered catalogue have actually diminished in quality to the point where many translations are actually far worse that their original theatrical counterparts (and for anyone who ever saw a HK movie in the cinema, that's saying something!). Additionally, as recently as the last few months (as of this writing), Joy Sales have started dropping English subtitles from some releases completely (ref: The Association).

Not meaning to rain on anyone's parade -- but I think everyone deserves accurate information when it comes to the Joy Sales releases of the Fortune Star library.

* I can post screengrabs from the title if anyone would like reference points as to just how hideous the "new translation(s)" are.

Mike T
12-02-2010, 01:56 AM
By way of example for board members of the "improved" quality of the retranslated English subtitles on the Joy Sales non-remastered range, here's some screen-grabs from Ironside 426 (released on DVD two years ago):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/whitedragon68/ironside426subtitles001.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/whitedragon68/ironside426subtitles002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/whitedragon68/ironside426subtitles005.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/whitedragon68/ironside426subtitles006.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/whitedragon68/ironside426subtitles007.jpg

Anyone who can tell me what's going on in this "translation" deserves a medal, as it's not English -- it's gibberish (achieved by feeding Chinese dialogue through an online translator)! Admittedly, the English translations weren't this bad when they (Joy Sales) started releasing the Fortune Star catalogue, but they were never entirely the best either (and my wife, who is Chinese, always advised that they were far from accurate as well).

In fairness, the remastered Fortune Star titles (which are, by and large, film-sourced as opposed to the 16:9 unconvert of PAL digiBeta tape masters for the budget line) have reasonable English subtitles -- though they are simplified somewhat from the original dialogue. A contact at FS advised me, some years back, that the remastered titles being released via Joy Sales (and previously IVL) didn't get "re-translated" English subs (thank God!) as they were already done at time of remastering.

Slightly OT diversion aside: back to the gore! :)

Jason Lee
12-02-2010, 05:12 AM
Wow...those subtitles are classic!!!

Takes me back about 15 years when I used to pick up obscure HK movies on VCD or VHS and couldn't work out 50 % of what was going on because of either...
1. Uninteligible subtitles
2. White subtitles on whicte background
3. Subtitles that disappeared out of the edge of the picture.

...ah, the GOOD old days!!

Steve R
12-02-2010, 08:50 AM
In the VHS days, I even got some that had double subtitles :eek:
With the English below some other Asian language while they spoke Canton.


No love for Story of Ricky?!?! :confused:
Shocking :(

Mike T
12-02-2010, 09:06 AM
In the VHS days, I even got some that had double subtitles :eek:
With the English below some other Asian language while they spoke Canton.

No love for Story of Ricky?!?! :confused:
Shocking :(

If they came from Hong Kong, it was mandatory under government law that the films carried both (usually traditional) Chinese and English subtitles. In the days of Mandarin films, the Chinese subs were there for Cantonese speakers -- being that it all reads the same, only the dialects differ -- and once Cantonese dialect film returned to favour in the eighties, they were there for the Mandarin speakers. The English was there for those running the country (the English -- as HK was a British colony until '97), so that they knew there was nothing subversive going on in the films against the government. And yes, by law they had to be accurate -- but the English ended up becoming simplified, retaining the meaning of the Chinese dialogue, but not always being 100% literal to what was being said.

After '97 there was no mandatory law that films had to contain both sets of subtitles, but they were retained more out of habit than anything else. We'll see if HK movies are still subtitled in English after 2046, as that's the fifty year benchmark that HK is allowed to operate as it did before the Handover; thereafter the intention is that it reverts fully to Chinese rule. Some DVDs still feature the dual subtitles, most particularly HK editions of Japanese films (the 20th Centruy Boys DVDs all had dual subtitles - there was no choice between English or Chinese, you got both onscreen). Essentially, there's no requirement for HK distributors to sub their films in English at all anymore...we're just lucky they do with most, for the time being.

Yes, am someone who enjoyed Simon Nam's Story of Ricky -- it's one of the goriest HK movies ever made. But it hasn't aged very well, and comes off more than a little dated twenty years on. It has its place, though... ;)

Robin Bougie
12-02-2010, 11:45 AM
Ok, so after that I'm a little confused. I'm a stickler for being able to understand what is going on in a movie, and to that end I need english subs that aren't gibberish. Are the subs on the joy star TIGER CAGE dvds intelligible, or not?

And yes, everyone loves STORY OF RICKY. No need to be shocked.

Steve R
12-02-2010, 12:05 PM
Mike,

Yes I knew about that law concerning the mandatory English subs and
credit it for the popularity of the HK films with us English speaking fans. Those of us in NYC could get tapes of current films in Chinatown and since they had those mandatory subs we could enjoy them and keep up with those glory years of HK films. Not only were the films great, with sometimes over the top action, and a head spinning mix of genres and styles within the same film, but
were it not for those subs it would have remained a foreign world to many of us. These were bootleg tapes and not the kind of imported foreign movies that got the full on art house treatment.


and thanks for the support on Ricky - my faith is restored (not that it ever left with dudes like you and Bougie)

Robin Bougie
12-02-2010, 12:12 PM
And actually I'd disagree with Mike T a little -- that Ricky hasn't aged well. I watched it last year again, and I still found my jaw falling open, even though I knew everything that was coming! That movie is so nuts. There hasn't been much in the 20 years since that can equal it in terms of an action/martial arts movie that makes you go WTF!?!??OMG!!!! Still one of the all-time great beer+pizza movies to watch with a room of people.

Mike T
12-02-2010, 01:22 PM
Are the subs on the joy star TIGER CAGE dvds intelligible, or not?

Hey Robin! Jack J appears to have the discs as he said...


Yeah, those TIGER CAGE films are highly entertaining and the new Fortune Star/Joy Sales DVDs are great. Many of their re-releases are non-remastered but fortunately these three films have been granted the remaster treatment! The only thing that isn't remastered is the subtitles which are still in wonky English - but at least they're subtitled.

I don't have any of the remastered Tiger Cage films, yet. When I get around to them, hopefully in the New Year, I reckon I'll only pick up the first two as I thought Part 3 was pretty lacklustre. As the remastered editions are all done inhouse, and not outsourced like the rubbish I posted previously in this thread, the subs should be good -- as I noted, the English translations on the remasters do get "dumbed down" a little and are somewhat simplified from the actual dialogue, but they always read well and are easy to follow; grammar and spelling are actually quite good on average. Maybe we should throw out to Jack J, since he's stated he has the set?

To explain Ricky a little further: you're on the money, Mr. Bougie! It is one of the most outrageous slices of crazy HK action/gore cinema and is arguably a perfect beer & pizza nominee. By "dated" what I meant to say is that it harbours that annoying HK slapstick here and there, as well as is very much a product of its era (turn of the nineties). Simon Nam (Nam Ngai Choi) made some wonderfully entertaining films -- see The Seventh Curse, The Cat, Peacock King and Erotic Ghost Story for more of his stylised, "anything-goes" colour-clad vision*. A great pity he virtually vanished after Ricky (there was rumour he'd gone back to camerwork for TV at one stage).

@ Steve: Long time HK nut, my friend! Been watching (and writing about) them since the late eighties and was lucky enough to see many of the "classics" on the big screen as Perth had two Chinese cinemas that ran weekly double-bills up until the late nineties (once import VCD & DVD knocked the local market dead for HK movies). Hardboiled and Full Contact on a giant cinema screen ruled! As did Erotic Ghost Story, Sex & Zen and Naked Killer! :D

* I don't need to tell Robin to see them all -- as I'm sure he already has! Such is his cult movie brilliance ;)

Robin Bougie
12-02-2010, 04:48 PM
Oh man, Mike! Getting to see those movies on a big screen must have been amazing! I had some similar luck in the mid 90s in the little Canadian prairie town of Saskatoon, where the programer at the local university theatre had something of a boner for HK stuff, and brought in film prints of IRON MONKEY, ONCE UPON A TIME IN CHINA 2, HARD BOILED, THE KILLER, BRIDE WITH WHITE HAIR, and the great (and silly) HK DIE HARD rip-off starring Jet Lee, HIGH RISK! Mostly it was Saskatoon's Chinese population that supported these screenings, so it was funny (and kinda rad) to be one of the only white guys there a lot of times.

Speaking of the awesome (and very underrated) PEACOCK KING, did you ever get to see Nam Ngai Choi's SAGA OF THE PHEONIX, the sequel to PEACOCK KING? Worth a watch!

Robin Bougie
12-02-2010, 05:28 PM
DDDHouse in HK where the price is $11 + postage (DDD are reliable & very quick).


I took your advice and got TIGER CAGE 1+2 from them, and also picked up the Shaw Bros classic, SEEDING OF A GHOST, which I've wanted to see ever since reading about it in Weisser's "Asian Cult Cinema" book back in 1998. He called it "...the zenith, the apex, the very top in the Asian gore category." Should be fun!

Randy Thomas G
12-02-2010, 10:30 PM
I liked SEEDING OF A GHOST but I think the 'zenith' of Asian gore has got to be Boxer's Omen.

Shane K
12-02-2010, 11:27 PM
I liked SEEDING OF A GHOST but I think the 'zenith' of Asian gore has got to be Boxer's Omen.

Goddamn right!

Jack J
12-03-2010, 03:38 AM
I took your advice and got TIGER CAGE 1+2 from them, and also picked up the Shaw Bros classic, SEEDING OF A GHOST, which I've wanted to see ever since reading about it in Weisser's "Asian Cult Cinema" book back in 1998. He called it "...the zenith, the apex, the very top in the Asian gore category." Should be fun!

Good on ya! The first time I read about SEEDING was also Weisser's review (although it was an earlier version printed in the pre-ACC mag "Naked! Screaming! Terror!" (the "Cinemasian" edition). :cool:

Jack J
12-03-2010, 03:47 AM
Ok, so after that I'm a little confused. I'm a stickler for being able to understand what is going on in a movie, and to that end I need english subs that aren't gibberish. Are the subs on the joy star TIGER CAGE dvds intelligible, or not?


You'll be able to understand them. No worries. They're fairly good. They're a far cry from the crappy subs in those screen grabs.

About TIGER CAGE 3; Some fans don't like it and others do. There's tons of action in it so it's really a matter of personal taste.

Jack J
12-03-2010, 03:52 AM
In the VHS days, I even got some that had double subtitles :eek:
With the English below some other Asian language while they spoke Canton.


No love for Story of Ricky?!?! :confused:
Shocking :(

You don't actually have to go all the way back to the VHS days for double subs, that's still the case with many VCDs from HK.

And yes, big love for STORY OF RICKY here!! I've bought and re-bought that film 3 or 4 times thru out the years. :D
Have you watched the animé version? If not you ought to get hold of it, it's just as over the top gory as the film.

Jack J
12-03-2010, 03:59 AM
As the remastered editions are all done inhouse, and not outsourced like the rubbish I posted previously in this thread, the subs should be good -- as I noted, the English translations on the remasters do get "dumbed down" a little and are somewhat simplified from the actual dialogue, but they always read well and are easy to follow; grammar and spelling are actually quite good on average. Maybe we should throw out to Jack J, since he's stated he has the set?


Well, like I mentioned a couple of days ago, Tin stated on ADG a few months back that Fortune Star wouldn't let Joy Sales do new subs for the remastered DVDs so they're the old subs. I compared the subs on TIGER CAGE 2 with an old Zoke DVD and they're exactly the same.



The problem is, Joy Sales has to follow Fortune Star's instruction for the remastered releases. It was under contract that they release the remastered DVD's as Fortune Star expects them to. Joy Sales has no say in what is to be included on the discs. That's also the main reason why none of the remastered DVD releases have any re-translated English subtitles when they were churning out the first few batches.
http://adg.invisionzone.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=2821&view=findpost&p=36150



Btw, The re-translated subs in your scans are awful, true, but some of the re-translated subs on other non-remastered DVDs are quite good and no-way near as terrible as these. For instance, one of the films that Tin Lun Lau worked on is THE BLACK CAT and I compared his subs to the cinema subs used for the old VCD and there's a big difference. Tin's are definitely much better.

Jack J
12-03-2010, 04:53 AM
Oh man, Mike! Getting to see those movies on a big screen must have been amazing!


And my final post for today, haha. Like Mike, I got to see many of these films on the big screen in OZ in the 90s, not in Perth but in Melbourne's Chinese cinemas. My first HK film at the cinema was A BETTTER TOMORROW at the Melb. Film Fest. in '91. It was awesome - and at the same time it really made you aware you were into something that not a whole lot of people shared with you. Well, at least people from your "own" culture. At screenings I was often the only Westerner there and if there was one other white person it was most likely my gf. I did meet other non Chinese cinema-goers from time to time but we never spoke. About a year ago, I actually "met" one of them when he posted a comment on my blog. It turned out he was Mark Savage whose writings in Fatal Visions (an Aussie zine) I actually used to read at the time. Weird how things happen sometimes; we'd probably passed each other by heaps of times but didn't get to "meet" till more than a decade later when he's in the US and I'm in Europe.

Robin Bougie
12-03-2010, 05:52 AM
haha cool! Mark posts on this board quite often as well, but I guess you probably know that.

Mike T
12-03-2010, 08:12 AM
Btw, The re-translated subs in your scans are awful, true, but some of the re-translated subs on other non-remastered DVDs are quite good and no-way near as terrible as these. For instance, one of the films that Tin Lun Lau worked on is THE BLACK CAT...

That's true -- but you have to remember that, although it wasn't released on DVD & VCD 'til '08, Black Cat was one of the first films Tin worked on. Some of Tin's translations didn't see light of day for up to two or three years from when he'd done them. My example posted prior was to show how dramatically the quality of the translations have declined since Joy Sales first took on the Fortune Star catalogue.

What people should also be aware of, as it was imparted to me by Tin some years ago (as I've known and corresponded with the young guy for years), is that the translations were never based on the actual dialogue -- they were based on scans of photocopies of the original theatrical subtitle scripts. All Tin was doing, for the non-remastered titles, was cleaning up the spelling and grammar of the English subtitles and making changes to better reflect the Chinese subtitles in decades old scripts. No-one ever sat down and actually transcribed the translations for the physical dialogue in the films.

So, while the translations might read better to an English speaker none of them are really true to the spoken dialogue -- just a better version of a pre-exisiting subtitle script. Mind you, even as far back as the first batch of releases there were some shocking translations (there were a team of translators, and Tin was one of a couple fully fluent in English as well as Chinese). I can post screengrabs from the first releases of translations that are utterly atrocious... ;)

@ Robin -- Re: Saga of the Phoenix. Why yes, yes I did... :) I first saw it on tape out of a Chinatown rental outlet, then picked up the Universe DVD years ago (when they had the Fortune Star licence). Then, wouldn't you know it? It was the support feature with one of the new films I saw on the big screen back in the mid-nineties!

Jon H.
12-03-2010, 09:52 AM
Saga of the phoenix is a great sequel to Peacock king! Over the top and hilarious! The universe dvd is a mess though. Motion blur galore to the extent that you can barely make out what the hell is going on. I hope the new Fortune star is an improvement!

Btw, for an equally entertaining fantasy-action film filled with surreal, over-the-top hijinks check out THE CAT (aka Lao mao, aka The thousand year cat) with Waise Lee. From Nam Nai Choi, the director of Story of Ricky.

As for gory action films, both Year of the dragon and State of grace contain some great instances of explicit violence if you ask me. The final shoot out of State of grace should appeal to any lover of gory squibs.

Darren Ward's SUDDEN FURY with the late David Warbeck is another one I would recommend. Extremely gory shootouts and numerous scenes of graphic torture! Great stuff!

As for HK films, I'm surprises that no one has mentioned Chu Yen Ping yet. His two films HUNTING LIST and REQUITAL (this one is basically a blatant rip off of State of grace and Once upon a time in America, to name a few) are excessively gory! Released with a cat 3 rating in HK, the former especially features shoot outs that don't shy away from the red stuff. Think Robocop squibs, think wet, spraying gun shot wounds. In abundance! Add degradation and a gritty, pessimistic atmosphere, and you have an action film well worth seeking out. This has only been released on vhs and ld as far as I know.

ON THE RUN with Yuen Biao was also surprisingly violent and gory. Shoot outs, stabbings, throat cuts, to name a few. And then there's HONG KONG GODFATHER of course. Violent, blood spraying stuff!

And I almost forgot FLAMING BROTHERS with Chow Yuen Fat. If you can sit through the horrible comedy and pathetic melodrama, you'll be rewarded with numerous gory action set pieces. The final showdown is a gorehound's wet dream, with more bullet-riddled bodies than you can shake a stick at. And more squib hits on ONE single person than I've ever seen since for that matter.

Mike T
12-03-2010, 12:04 PM
Saga of the phoenix is a great sequel to Peacock king! Over the top and hilarious! The universe dvd is a mess though. Motion blur galore to the extent that you can barely make out what the hell is going on. I hope the new Fortune star is an improvement!

Do you want the bad news, or do you want the bad news? Though the newer DVD from Joy Sales is better authored than the old Universe disc...well, it's been lifted from the same old tired digiBeta PAL master for every prior release the film has had. Only they've 16:9 upscaled it. What people need to remember is that Fortune Star have no intention of ever doing better by the catalogue titles and there's high probability that many of them only exist anymore as these digiBeta PAL masters (that were originally prepared for cable all the way back when Fortune Star was just known as Star, and broadcast under the Star TV banner). I doubt negatives even exist in some cases, being that film preservation didn't really start happening proper in HK until film critic Shu Kei set up the HK Film Archive in the mid-nineties.


ON THE RUN with Yuen Biao was also surprisingly violent and gory. Shoot outs, stabbings, throat cuts, to name a few.

I am staggered at how I forgot this one, one of my favourite HK crime thrillers! Alfred Cheung's On the Run (1988) is essentially film noir, HK style and is jarringly violent. Invaribaly, anyone shot is shot in the head in very messy fashion -- sometimes taking out eyes with a gory explosion of blood and brain matter from the back of the head. Hands are cut off with machetes, and one poor soul wanders about in shock with gory bleeding stumps thereafter. It's definitely an exceptionally violent thriller and well worth seeking out. There are two versions of it though: the cinema version, which was released on DVD and VCD in HK, excludes an epilogue -- however, years ago UK video company Made in Hong Kong released a version with the extended epilogue complete on VHS.

Neil G
12-03-2010, 04:40 PM
How about Wardog some crazy violence in that one.

Also Uwe Boll's masterpiece Tunnel Rats gets a bit nasty in parts.

Jon H.
12-03-2010, 05:11 PM
I stand corrected, Mike T.. It was more gory head shots and an arm being cut off in ON THE RUN. Were there any throat cuts / knife scenes? I can't seem to remember! Anyhow, great film! Truly intense!

Yes, the Swedish WAR DOGS is extremely gory squib-wise. I used to think my old Danish vhs was uncut, until the German dvd came along! Man, what bonus goodies in the uncut version.

Neil G
12-03-2010, 05:40 PM
On the Run is excellent. Also how about Ninja Mission for more Swedish action violence?

Musa and The Sword and the Moon were quite violent and had action in, but not sure if they are strictly action films?

Cannibal Mercenaries reaches insane violence levels, not so much in the Jaguar Killers dvd release though.

Steve R
12-03-2010, 06:57 PM
Musa is an excellent movie!

It looks great, has a very neat plot and some of the best action sequences in any period Asian film. The spear play alone by the lead is phenomenal. There is also a terrific set piece in the dense forrest where a very few of the good guys battle quite a few bad guys on horses and such.

In my top ten, maybe even five of best period Asain action film and the one that really put modern Korrean stuff on the map. Though every subsequent release was touted as the most expense Korean film ever made.

Oh and Zhang Ziyi ios very fetching in this one. It alos makes some nice comments on what constitutes a real leader.

Jon H.
12-03-2010, 07:27 PM
Musa is excellent, but I wouldn't call it explicitly gory though. But then again, I'm a hardened Norwegian viking, made vertially immune to on-screen violence though countless freezing winters spent in the company of too many hours of sadistic gore. :D

But jokes aside, I'm sure there are countless other hk flicks that would qualify. They just elude me right now. Time to check my collection methinks.

Neil G
12-03-2010, 07:42 PM
I love Musa, though You may be right about it not being explicitly gory. I just remember quite a high violence level as opposed to films of this type before (spears in necks, heads sliced off etc).

Having just mentioned Musa though got me on to thinking about The Assassin with Max Mok. Eyes sewn shut, heads and legs cut off, frizzy hair, the lot.

Jack J
12-03-2010, 11:18 PM
haha cool! Mark posts on this board quite often as well, but I guess you probably know that.

Yes, but thanks for mentioning. He's also got a very cool blog (http://phantomofpulp.blogspot.com/?zx=aaf52b060ccd2ae) and became a film maker in his own right.

Jack J
12-03-2010, 11:26 PM
I am staggered at how I forgot this one, one of my favourite HK crime thrillers!

[...]

There are two versions of it though: the cinema version, which was released on DVD and VCD in HK, excludes an epilogue -- however, years ago UK video company Made in Hong Kong released a version with the extended epilogue complete on VHS.

Maybe you and everyone else forgot about this one as it's not really what I would call an "action film" (which is what the thread author asked for). It's a violent cinema noir film. And I'm with you on this one; It's one of my fave HK movies too!

The versions: I have that UK tape which definitely is the way to watch the film until a better version comes along; It's uncut, it's letterboxed, and not least it has good English subtitles.

Btw, Mike, I keep asking about this on boards but no one seems to have bought the new(ish) VCD version from Joy Sales? Is it the same cut version??? Someone on ADG mentioned that whenever the DVD comes out it'll be among their restored versions. Do you know anything about this, can we hope for an uncut DVD? (and if yes it's still gonna take some fan to add the UK subs as the DVD is still gonna carry the cinema subs, LOL).

Mike T
12-03-2010, 11:40 PM
Btw, Mike, I keep asking about this on boards but no one seems to have bought the new(ish) VCD version from Joy Sales? Is it the same cut version??? Someone on ADG mentioned that whenever the DVD comes out it'll be among their restored versions. Do you know anything about this, can we hope for an uncut DVD? (and if yes it's still gonna take some fan to add the UK subs as the DVD is still gonna carry the cinema subs, LOL).

Jack: Sorry, I don't buy VCDs -- not only does my BD player not support them, but the quality just isn't there for me to justify paying any kind of money for them (I wouldn't touch them if they were a dollar) when 9 times out of 10 there's a DVD version available for only a few dollars more.

That said, as I've stated a number of times in this thread, being that the majority of titles being released under the FS banner are done so in their 1993 copyright-renewed PAL video masters, then by rights any version of On the Run with the FS logo attached to it should replicate the version released on DVD by Megastar back when they had the Star TV (Fortune Star) licence. And that version was the one that removes the epilogue sequence per the HK theatrical edition -- it's not the film isn't "uncut", as the version without the epilogue is exactly the same one that I saw in the cinema as the bottom half of a double-bill, it's just that somehow MIHK managed to source a print with the epilogue intact. The Megastar DVD I own a copy of doesn't have the epilogue -- so the OOP Deltamac DVD/VCD and (newer) Joy Sales VCD should be identical, since it's the same master used.

NB: The fact that On the Run isn't an "action film" is kind of moot, as suggestions thus far from other members have run sufficiently far of field to include sci-fi, thrillers, fantasies, comedies and martial arts films. The only common thread maintained, thus far, has been content that equates as graphic violence.

Jack J
12-03-2010, 11:56 PM
Thanks. I know you've said it a few times in this thread but I just wanted to hear if you had actually checked it yourself. But I'm sure you're right and it's the cut version. It'll be interesting to see if they dig up a fully uncut version for the DVD (in case ON THE RUN really is going to be in their remastered line).

Mike T
12-04-2010, 08:25 AM
Sorry I coudn't help any further, Jack. If I still had some old school technology in the house that supported VCDs, maybe I could have. I'm not 100% sure about what's going to happen with On the Run by way of a Joy Sales release -- there's been a VCD released through them, and it's packaged in the non-remastered packaging. So, maybe like In the Line of Duty III before it, which was originally listed for remastering, this one's probably not going to happen. That's my sad, but educated, guess... :(

Jack J
12-04-2010, 08:35 AM
Sorry I coudn't help any further, Jack.


No worries.

Btw, if you ever need to watch VCDs you can do it on your computer with a free VLC media player. :cool:

Jon H.
12-04-2010, 09:47 AM
I love Musa, though You may be right about it not being explicitly gory. I just remember quite a high violence level as opposed to films of this type before (spears in necks, heads sliced off etc).

Having just mentioned Musa though got me on to thinking about The Assassin with Max Mok. Eyes sewn shut, heads and legs cut off, frizzy hair, the lot.

It's bee ages since I saw this, so perhaps it's time to revisit this classic. There were certainly some bloody battles in there, gory spear stuff etc, so I may have to reevaluate my statement.

The assassin is geat stuff. A pity the dvd release from HK is missing like 20 minutes of footage {or was it less?}. Mostly plot I think, but I never bothered buying it. Watched a rip from the ld.

Guess we have to mention Ringo Lam's amazing BURNING PARADISE as well then, which features excessively gory swordplay. People cut in half, heads ripped off, gory impalements. Fun stuff!

Neil G
12-04-2010, 10:58 AM
Another superb film! There are quite a few Asian action films with gory violence, but it's jest remembering them all.

Others I hve thought of

Day of Violence - Darren Ward's more recent crime film. Some quite nasty stuff in that.
Contraband
Deadbeat at Dawn
Lethal Force (gory in a camp way)

Mike T
12-05-2010, 08:45 AM
Oh, btw for all reading: if any of you are interested in picking up some of the HK titles mentioned that make up parts of the Fortune Star range (eg: the more violent action films cited in this thread) then be aware that I've noticed that titles from the catalogue are starting to drop OOP. This usually means that the company's licence is near expiring and they are not repressing discs. Here's a link to all the Fortune Star titles available through (very reliable, and cheap) HK retailer DDDHouse:

http://www.dddhouse.com/v3/product_list.php?CategoryID=215

Now might be the time to get collecting as, much like the Shaw Brothers titles released through IVL, once they go OOP that's it -- and invariably it's the more popular (or well known) titles that go OOP first.

Steve R
12-06-2010, 01:48 PM
Been cleaning out a section of old VHS in my closet to make room for DVDs
and what do I find?

Tiger on Beat
Tiger Cage Two

:D - Be nice to see these guys again. I have recognized all the pix talked about. That truly was a golden age from the early 80s to the mid 90s.

Love that this thread detoured into HK films for so many miles,
and rightly so! Burning Paradise is another favorite!
Though when they sew our hero's eyes shut in Assassin that really got me.