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Kamyar
08-12-2010, 05:28 PM
Can you think of Films that completely derailed careers in the movie business?

A classic example is "Peeping Tom" which resulted in the blacklisting of its director Michael Powell.

I think a recent example of an actresses career being demolished considerably by a role is probably Meg Ryan's appearance in "In The Cut". No more cutesy rom-coms for her after that one.

Any more?

Luis Domenech
08-12-2010, 05:41 PM
I haven't seen Jim Caviezel in anything after he did Passion of the Christ.

cworkman
08-12-2010, 05:46 PM
I just read a snippet from an interview with Harry Hamlin (CLASH OF THE TITANS), who claimed that MAKING LOVE pretty much killed his career. I personally thought it was his inability to act, but his career didn't really die after MAKING LOVE (which IS a terrible film): he went on to become a prime-time king in the 80s and early 90s...

cworkman
08-12-2010, 05:47 PM
I haven't seen Jim Caviezel in anything after he did Passion of the Christ.

He seems fairly one note to me, and has little screen presence. Let's face it, the only reason people love him (and you know what people I mean) is because he played Jesus in a very successful horror film about the Son of God.

cworkman
08-12-2010, 05:48 PM
Can you think of Films that completely derailed careers in the movie business?

A classic example is "Peeping Tom" which resulted in the blacklisting of its director Michael Powell.

I think a recent example of an actresses career being demolished considerably by a role is probably Meg Ryan's appearance in "In The Cut". No more cutesy rom-coms for her after that one.

Any more?

Ryan's career had been sliding downward for years, which is probably why she took IN THE CUT in the first place. (And what a terrible film it is; I couldn't even get through it, despite full frontal male nudity.)

Alex K.
08-12-2010, 06:24 PM
Heaven's Gate is the ultimate example.

Marshall Crist
08-12-2010, 06:32 PM
TWILIGHT ZONE--THE MOVIE

hardy har har

Michael Greenwood
08-12-2010, 06:33 PM
Tod Browning and Freaks, apparently.

BobG
08-12-2010, 08:43 PM
The Love Guru

Thomas Wood
08-12-2010, 09:52 PM
BOXING HELENA, killed Jennifer Lynch's career for years and didn't help Sherilyn Fenn's movie career (has mainly done TV since). (Actually I thought the film was interesting and nowhere near as bad as the critics said).

Glen Davis
08-12-2010, 10:00 PM
A couple:

Lee Marvin's career never recovered from The Klansman.

HellBound put the finis on Chuck Norris

Instant Justice killed Michael Pare's

Troy Howarth
08-12-2010, 10:14 PM
One could argue that The Thing killed John Carpenter's career as a potential big league director. I'd also say that Phantom of the Opera pretty much ruined Argento's career, at least so far as making bigger budgeted fare is concerned.

cworkman
08-12-2010, 11:40 PM
The Love Guru

Anyone associated with this absolutely terrible and very unfunny comedy should see their careers die!

cworkman
08-12-2010, 11:42 PM
One could argue that The Thing killed John Carpenter's career as a potential big league director. I'd also say that Phantom of the Opera pretty much ruined Argento's career, at least so far as making bigger budgeted fare is concerned.

Yes, and no. STARMAN came out afterwards and was hugely successful, breathing some life in Carpenter's career. And he did go on to make some terrific films on a small budget.

Ray R
08-13-2010, 02:14 AM
What, no mention of MOMMIE DEAREST and Faye Dunaway yet?????

Robin Bougie
08-13-2010, 07:03 AM
Cutthroat Island utterly ANNIHILATED Geena Davis' career.

I think a lot of people forget that before that film she was one of the biggest and most bankable female stars in Hollywood for 4 or 5 years. She's done almost nothing since aside from playing a mom in the lacklustre Stuart Little movies.

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 08:27 AM
Yes, and no. STARMAN came out afterwards and was hugely successful, breathing some life in Carpenter's career. And he did go on to make some terrific films on a small budget.

The quality of his later work has nothing to do with it - The Thing was the film that was designed to take his career to the next level. It tanked, and he never recovered. Starman and Vampires both turned substantial profits, but they didn't do much good for him in the long run.

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 08:27 AM
Anyone associated with this absolutely terrible and very unfunny comedy should see their careers die!

Even Ben Kingsley?

Fred Hana
08-13-2010, 08:30 AM
THE MONSTER SQUAD really hurt Fred Dekkers career... until ROBOCOP 3 completely trashed it.

Poor guy.

Jonathan Douglas
08-13-2010, 08:46 AM
Cutthroat Island utterly ANNIHILATED Geena Davis' career.

I think a lot of people forget that before that film she was one of the biggest and most bankable female stars in Hollywood for 4 or 5 years. She's done almost nothing since aside from playing a mom in the lacklustre Stuart Little movies.

I was never a fan and that film is pretty bad yes, think Michael Douglas jumped ship and they got Matthew Modine, even in TOOTSIE I didn't recognise her as anything special. Unless I'm mistaken though, wasn't LONG KISS GOODNIGHT successful and the two seasons of COMMANDER IN CHIEF, or maybe they were bigger outside the US anyway. In any case, her last credit dates 2009 with nothing new this year so could be on a break.

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 09:49 AM
I was never a fan and that film is pretty bad yes, think Michael Douglas jumped ship and they got Matthew Modine, even in TOOTSIE I didn't recognise her as anything special. Unless I'm mistaken though, wasn't LONG KISS GOODNIGHT successful and the two seasons of COMMANDER IN CHIEF, or maybe they were bigger outside the US anyway. In any case, her last credit dates 2009 with nothing new this year so could be on a break.

One of the better "bad" breaks Oliver Reed had in his career was getting fired from Cutthroat Island; poor Frank Langella got to take his place.

Long Kiss Goodnight was no blockbuster.

cworkman
08-13-2010, 09:58 AM
Even Ben Kingsley?

Well, maybe not Ben (who has been in some real crap in his career, desite being a brilliant actor).

cworkman
08-13-2010, 09:59 AM
One of the better "bad" breaks Oliver Reed had in his career was getting fired from Cutthroat Island; poor Frank Langella got to take his place.

Long Kiss Goodnight was no blockbuster.

Thank God Frank Langella's career has since revived - and he's become a far better actor today, a first rate actor, than he ever was when he was young.

cworkman
08-13-2010, 10:00 AM
The quality of his later work has nothing to do with it - The Thing was the film that was designed to take his career to the next level. It tanked, and he never recovered. Starman and Vampires both turned substantial profits, but they didn't do much good for him in the long run.

Which is why I wrote "Yes, and no." But he's made so many films since then, I just can't see his career as really having been killed. And some of his bombs since have completely of his own making (THE VILLAGE OF THE DAMNED, anyone?)

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 10:48 AM
Which is why I wrote "Yes, and no." But he's made so many films since then, I just can't see his career as really having been killed. And some of his bombs since have completely of his own making (THE VILLAGE OF THE DAMNED, anyone?)

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying, so I think I'll just let it go... I can't think of ANYONE whose career was destroyed to the point that they never made another film... even Michael Powell and Michael Cimino got work after the films they made that resulted in their fall from grace. But I think I've made my point clear enough, so I'll move on. :)

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 10:50 AM
Well, maybe not Ben (who has been in some real crap in his career, desite being a brilliant actor).

The reality is this: brilliant actor, yes... but he also has bills to pay, and since a contentious divorce he also has a hefty alimony to pay out, thus he occasionally does garbage for quick cash.

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 10:52 AM
Thank God Frank Langella's career has since revived - and he's become a far better actor today, a first rate actor, than he ever was when he was young.

Truthfully, I always thought he was a fine actor. He's terrific in Dracula, for example, though he's sometimes criticized for it.

Jason Lee
08-13-2010, 10:53 AM
I heard that after MAN BITES DOG no one would touch the two directors with a ten-foot barge pole!

Stallone killed himself in the few "comedies" he tried....but since recovered...

Cub a Gooding Jr....anything after Jerry Mcqguire

Eddie Murphy....erm, cant thinik which one..maybe HAUNTED MANSION

hers a list from some website..."ZIMBIO"


1.Kevin Costner, The Postman
2.John Travolta, Battlefield Earth
3.Geena Davis, Cutthroat Island
4.Halle Berry, Catwoman
5.Lindsay Lohan, I Know Who Killed Me
6.Jennifer Lopez, Gigli
7.Cuba Gooding Jr., Boat Trip
8.Demi Moore, Striptease
9.Eddie Murphy, The Adventures of Pluto Nash
10.Elizabeth Berkley, Showgirls

Jonathan Douglas
08-13-2010, 11:06 AM
Long Kiss Goodnight was no blockbuster.
Like I said, in America perhaps not but elsewhere it did okay.

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 11:09 AM
Okay is not blockbuster.

Keith B.
08-13-2010, 11:20 AM
I wonder if Harvey Keitel's career might have been bigger had he not been fired from APOCALYPSE NOW.

Jonathan Douglas
08-13-2010, 11:37 AM
Okay is not blockbuster.

Who's talking about blockbusters anyway, films can still be successful and not kill careers so I think it's more a case of new actresses coming in all the time looking more interesting to the industry, that's what happens. But she could very well return to good things one day.

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 11:54 AM
Who's talking about blockbusters anyway, films can still be successful and not kill careers so I think it's more a case of new actresses coming in all the time looking more interesting to the industry, that's what happens. But she could very well return to good things one day.

WE'RE talking about blockbusters... the original point was that Davis' career was killed by Cutthroat Island; you countered saying she has done other things that were mildly successful afterwards. The point isn't that these people never worked again, nor that they haven't done a couple of things that were somewhat successful - the point is, these people had major careers - or careers on the ascent - that were derailed by a particular flop. I don't understand why some here aren't grasping that idea. It doesn't mean that the person made a bad film, necessarily, or that they're not any good.

Jon Houghton
08-13-2010, 12:01 PM
I wonder if Harvey Keitel's career might have been bigger had he not been fired from APOCALYPSE NOW.

not to get off topic here, but why was Harvey Keitel fired from Apocalypse Now?

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 12:07 PM
not to get off topic here, but why was Harvey Keitel fired from Apocalypse Now?

To the best of my knowledge, it was never specified. I think Coppola just didn't like his take on the character. He also tried to get Clint Eastwood and Al Pacino. I like the film a lot, but I simply don't think Martin Sheen can carry it. He's a good character actor, but he doesn't make for a compelling protagonist, IMO. Thus, I wish he would have stuck with Keitel or been successful in getting Pacino. Eastwood - whom I love, by the way - would have brought the wrong baggage to it, I think.

Jonathan Douglas
08-13-2010, 12:15 PM
WE'RE talking about blockbusters... the original point was that Davis' career was killed by Cutthroat Island; you countered saying she has done other things that were mildly successful afterwards. The point isn't that these people never worked again, nor that they haven't done a couple of things that were somewhat successful - the point is, these people had major careers - or careers on the ascent - that were derailed by a particular flop. I don't understand why some here aren't grasping that idea. It doesn't mean that the person made a bad film, necessarily, or that they're not any good.

When did she ever really make a blockbuster, I'm not talking about blockbusters as I don't think the thread is about that. I don't think her career was derailed truth be told, she continued doing big films after CI, no one's on top forever especially actresses.

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 12:17 PM
When did she ever really make a blockbuster, I'm not talking about blockbusters as I don't think the thread is about that. I don't think her career was derailed truth be told, she continued doing big films after CI, no one's on top forever especially actresses.

Perhaps you're just being argumentative, but the concept behind the thread is crystal clear. As the initial post about Davis stated quite explicitly: she was a major star with a string of successful films - she made Cutthroat Island and her career was badly affected... no more big successful films, no more selling films on her name and participation, with attempts to do so meeting with middling results. Is this not clear? It has nothing to do with her talent.

Erik S.
08-13-2010, 12:19 PM
Anyone mention Elizabeth Berkley in SHOWGIRLS yet?

Did a number on Verhoeven's American career, as well.

HOLLOW MAN probably didn't help, either.

Jonathan Douglas
08-13-2010, 12:32 PM
Perhaps you're just being argumentative, but the concept behind the thread is crystal clear. As the initial post about Davis stated quite explicitly: she was a major star with a string of successful films - she made Cutthroat Island and her career was badly affected... no more big successful films, no more selling films on her name and participation, with attempts to do so meeting with middling results. Is this not clear? It has nothing to do with her talent.

Somebody, is this thread about blockbusters? Actually, she made a couple of films right before CI that weren't that big either, but the point is she continued making a few big films but to suggest her career tanked I think is stretching it. She'd never ever gotten that CIC show if she didn't still have a name with some clout. But for women in this business it rarely lasts forever on the top, name one. Streep perhaps, but she's like an institution now. I never said it's about talent played into any of it either.

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 12:38 PM
Somebody, is this thread about blockbusters? Actually, she made a couple of films right before CI that weren't that big either, but the point is she continued making a few big films but to suggest her career tanked I think is stretching it. She'd never ever gotten that CIC show if she didn't still have a name with some clout. But for women in this business it rarely lasts forever on the top, name one. Streep perhaps, but she's like an institution now. I never said it's about talent played into any of it either.

Have you even bothered to read this thread through and through?

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 12:40 PM
Cutthroat Island utterly ANNIHILATED Geena Davis' career.

I think a lot of people forget that before that film she was one of the biggest and most bankable female stars in Hollywood for 4 or 5 years. She's done almost nothing since aside from playing a mom in the lacklustre Stuart Little movies.

I think Jonathon might have missed this. As to his suggestion that carrying a TV show is proof of someone's bankability and star power... we're talking FILM, not TV - TV is often times a haven for actors whose staying power has been exhausted on the big screen. Again, that should be obvious.

Jonathan Douglas
08-13-2010, 12:43 PM
Of course I've read it, but as far as I can see it doesn't talk about blockbusters anywhere.

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 12:47 PM
So you're being deliberately dense? Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude, but I feel like you're being difficult to prove some vague point. The point of the thread, for the umpteenth time, is to talk about films that derailed careers that were either firmly established or on the up and up. It's about bankability and drawing power. It's about name value. If you choose not to understand this concept, there's not much I can do to illuminate it any further.

Blake L.
08-13-2010, 12:51 PM
Neighbors flatlined Cathy Moriarity's career. A serious car accident didn't help either, but being a part of such a dud--for the second film of her career--was just crippling. She didn't work again for nearly 6 years.

Jonathan Douglas
08-13-2010, 12:52 PM
Well, excuse me your highness for mentioning a TV show that proves her name still carries some weight, this is actually why I think she could have a comeback one day. Or did you expect her after all these years to have been bankable still? It doesn't always work that way, but if Kim Catrall can do it I guess Geena can too.

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 12:55 PM
Well, excuse me your highness for mentioning a TV show that proves her name still carries some weight, this is actually why I think she could have a comeback one day. Or did you expect her after all these years to have been bankable still? It doesn't always work that way, but if Kim Catrall can do it I guess Geena can too.

You of all people shouldn't be calling anyone "your highness." I never disputed the point that she could have a comeback - where did you get this impression? I wasn't aware you were so touchy about Geena Davis' star power, but whatever makes you feel better. I think she's a decent actress and if she were to find the right role to get her back to where she was at before, that'd be lovely. In the meantime, she's not the name she once was. That's all I've been saying all along.

Jonathan Douglas
08-13-2010, 01:03 PM
What should I use instead then? I'm not in the least bit touchy about Davis, I don't even like her much and here I am defending her honour just to prove a point that she's continued to stay popular in people's mind, not in blockbusters perhaps but I don't think she ever made any apart from THELMA and possibly that baseball film with Madonna.

Kamyar
08-13-2010, 01:30 PM
Interesting article (from 11 years ago):

http://archive.southcoasttoday.com/daily/01-99/01-16-99/b03ae071.htm

"Cutthroat Island" completely demolished both Geena's and Renny Harlin's career and was probably one of the reasons they ended up divorcing each other. To say that a 70$mio. flic making 10$mio. at the box office didn't have any effect on certain careers just because Geena played the mum in "Stuart Little" is a bit short-sighted.

Andrew Ellis
08-13-2010, 02:01 PM
"Wild Orchid" helped kill Mickey Rourke's career for a long while and "Harley Davidson and the Motorcycle Man" was another nail in the coffin for him AND Don Johnson. "Hudson Hawk" SHOULD have killed Bruce Willis' career, but it DID kill the career of Michael Lehman (director of "Heathers").

I don't know that "Showgirls" really killed Elizabeth Berkely's career since she really didn't have one before (although it might have scuttled her chances to get back on "Saved by the Bell"). It did seem to kill the career of hotshot writer Joe Esterhaus (that and "Jade").

Jonathan Douglas
08-13-2010, 02:09 PM
It was definitely Harlin suffering the most, I believe his later shark film was a moderate hit but that one I liked even less, what I've seen that he's done since then's been even worse. My stand's merely, had CI been a huge hit I seriously have doubts she'd (Davis) still be top billing today in the Hollywood game. It is good to look at the title of the thread, it is 'career killer' not 'my blockbuster tanked', many of the people have kept on working and not disappeared so to me this is not all about the mighty dollar or whether a star doesn't gets star billing anymore.

Erik S.
08-13-2010, 02:21 PM
Eric Roberts in STAR 80.

Sometimes an actor can be too good in a role.....

Guillaume P
08-13-2010, 02:23 PM
The quality of his later work has nothing to do with it - The Thing was the film that was designed to take his career to the next level. It tanked, and he never recovered. Starman and Vampires both turned substantial profits, but they didn't do much good for him in the long run.

at least STARMAN received an Academy Award nomination for Jeff Bridges's performance:),probably the only one AA nomination for a Carpenter film...STARMAN (and CHRISTINE before) did ok at the box office but it's true that THE THING,BIG TROUBLE IN LITTLE CHINA,MEMOIRS OF AN INVISIBLE MAN, and ESCAPE FROM LA were really disappointing and bitter box office experiences for Carpenter.

PS: i guess i'm one of the few who likes Carpenter's "Village of the damned"...:o

Erik S.
08-13-2010, 02:24 PM
It was definitely Harlin suffering the most, I believe his later shark film was a moderate hit but that one I liked even less, what I've seen that he's done since then's been even worse. .

I thought 12 ROUNDS was pretty entertaining. It's loud, it's dumb, and it stars a professional wrestler!

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 02:28 PM
at least STARMAN received an Academy Award nomination for Jeff Bridges's performance:),probably the only one AA nomination for a Carpenter film...STARMAN (and CHRISTINE before) did ok at the box office but it's true that THE THING,BIG TROUBLE IN LITTLE CHINA,MEMOIRS OF AN INVISIBLE MAN, and ESCAPE FROM LA were really disappointing and bitter box office experiences for Carpenter.

PS: i guess i'm one of the few who likes Carpenter's "Village of the damned"...:o

Starman was definitely a hit - BUT I don't think Carpenter benefitted that much from it. Many people don't even seem to know it's one of his films - it's just so atypical. I love it, but if it did anything it enabled him to do Big Trouble - which also ended up being a heartbreaking experience for him.

Guillaume P
08-13-2010, 02:29 PM
I'd also say that Phantom of the Opera pretty much ruined Argento's career, at least so far as making bigger budgeted fare is concerned.

OPERA was also a disappointing experience for Argento because it was a big budget released nowhere theatrically in the world (aside from the italian and japanese screens)...also TRAUMA and GIALLO were bitter experiences
,i guess.

Guillaume P
08-13-2010, 02:32 PM
Starman was definitely a hit - BUT I don't think Carpenter benefitted that much from it. Many people don't even seem to know it's one of his films - it's just so atypical. I love it, but if it did anything it enabled him to do Big Trouble - which also ended up being a heartbreaking experience for him.

yes,Carpenter probably did much more money with "They live" and "Prince of darkness" than with "Big trouble..." and "Memoirs of an invisible man",because they were low budget (both "They Live" and "Prince of darkness" won back their budget,at the end of their 1st US week end theatrical screenings,if i remember well)

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 02:37 PM
yes,Carpenter probably did much more money with "They live" and "Prince of darkness" than with "Big trouble..." and "Memoirs of an invisible man",because they were low budget (both "They Live" and "Prince of darkness" won back their budget,at the end of their 1st US week end theatrical screenings,if i remember well)

In fact, Prince of Darkness and They Live both underperformed - they were low budget, so they didn't lose money, but they weren't the kind of successes Universal/Alive was hoping for, so they terminated Carpenter's contract. They Live opened very well, but it was pulled from release rather suddenly - Keith David has suggested the film's message got it into hot water, but of course that's just speculation.

Jonathan Douglas
08-13-2010, 02:42 PM
Was BIG TROUBLE... only a small US hit? Over here it did fine I seem to recall, probably his last one to do well.

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 02:50 PM
Was BIG TROUBLE... only a small US hit? Over here it did fine I seem to recall, probably his last one to do well.

Carpenter has said the whole experience nearly made him retire. Fox hated the film, they didn't know how to market it, and it tanked theatrically in the US. It may have done better overseas, but it didn't do his career any favors in the US. Carpenter's films have typically met with more success overseas, though; the favortism towards Assault on Precinct 13 started in the UK and France, for example, whereas it was initially dismissed over here.

Jonathan H.
08-13-2010, 02:56 PM
Drug problems had already put a damper on Brad Davis' post-MIDNIGHT EXPRESS career when he did Fassbinder's QUERELLE, described as "career suicide" by at least one commentator. One has to give credit to Davis for going all out in this regard...if you're going to appear in a "career killing film" make it one in which you play a gay sailor who dabbles in drug-dealing and murder.

Guillaume P
08-13-2010, 03:23 PM
In fact, Prince of Darkness and They Live both underperformed - they were low budget, so they didn't lose money, but they weren't the kind of successes Universal/Alive was hoping for, so they terminated Carpenter's contract.

less than Universal/Alive wanted,probably,but:

"Prince of darkness":

Budget
$3,000,000 (estimated)


Opening Weekend
$4,657,401 (USA) (25 October 1987) (1,239 Screens)


Gross
$14,182,492 (USA)


"They live":

Budget
$4,000,000 (estimated)


Opening Weekend
$4,827,000 (USA) (6 November 1988) (1,463 Screens)

Gross

$13,008,928 (USA)




Add to this the foreign box office,tv and video sales,and these are nice results...at least more than for "big trouble" and "invisible man"!:D

Guillaume P
08-13-2010, 03:27 PM
Was BIG TROUBLE... only a small US hit? Over here it did fine I seem to recall, probably his last one to do well.

In France it did rather well too but yeah it bombed in the States!

I remember that "In the mouth of madness" received very good reviews in France and did pretty good at the box office,even the maligned "Ghosts of Mars" received mostly good reviews here (was it a direct to video in the UK,or am i wrong??)

"Vampires" was also a minor hit in France (first country to release the film in theaters,6 months before the States,if i remember well),and during the film's release Carpenter received his career tribute at la Cinémathèque of Paris.

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 03:32 PM
less than Universal/Alive wanted,probably,but:

"Prince of darkness":

Budget
$3,000,000 (estimated)


Opening Weekend
$4,657,401 (USA) (25 October 1987) (1,239 Screens)


Gross
$14,182,492 (USA)


"They live":

Budget
$4,000,000 (estimated)


Opening Weekend
$4,827,000 (USA) (6 November 1988) (1,463 Screens)

Gross

$13,008,928 (USA)




Add to this the foreign box office,tv and video sales,and these are nice results...at least more than "big trouble" and "invisible man"!:D

Like I said, they definitely didn't lose money - but they simply didn't do the kind of business Universal/Alive had in mind.

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 03:33 PM
In France it did rather well but yeah it bombed in the States!

"Vampires" did also very well in France (first country to release the film in theaters,6 months before the States,if i remember well)

The French love Carpenter!:D:)

I *think* Columbia/TriStar opted to give the film a bigger opening than originally planned due to its performance in France... I could be wrong, but I think they more or less planned to dump it. It had a very big opening over here - the best R rated Halloween weekend opening up to that point, I gather - but it went downhill soon after.

cworkman
08-13-2010, 03:57 PM
Truthfully, I always thought he was a fine actor. He's terrific in Dracula, for example, though he's sometimes criticized for it.

He's good in it, I'll agree. The problem is the dated hairstyle (which, I'm sure, the producers wanted because it was considered sexy at the time, despite the fact that men in the 1800s did NOT have such hairstyles). The scene utilizing The Who's laser machine is also very hokey.

Outside of that, though, I think it a terrific film that is highly underrated - and it's deserving of a BD release, though I hope Universal offers the original, theatrical, colorful version of the film on BD, not just the crappy, near-black and white version that was released on DVD (thank you, Mr. Badham - if I wanted to see a black and white version of the Dean-Hamilton tale, I'd just watch Universal's 1931 film with Bela Lugosi). Or, at the last, Universal, place BOTH versions on the disc.

cworkman
08-13-2010, 04:06 PM
Starman was definitely a hit - BUT I don't think Carpenter benefitted that much from it. Many people don't even seem to know it's one of his films - it's just so atypical. I love it, but if it did anything it enabled him to do Big Trouble - which also ended up being a heartbreaking experience for him.

I think he benefited from it, but the problem with Carpenter is that he's never known how to cash in on his own success. He makes films he wants to make and that isn't always popular. I mean, MEMOIRS OF AN INVISIBLE MAN wasn't exactly a low-budget film; it was intended to be a blockbuster, no doubt about it, but it wasn't very good.

So I'd argue that, less than the success of THE THING, Carpenter's own unevenness did him in. At times he's brilliant on big budget or small, and at times his work is terrible on big budget or small.

cworkman
08-13-2010, 04:10 PM
Like I said, they definitely didn't lose money - but they simply didn't do the kind of business Universal/Alive had in mind.

These two films basically made their production costs back three times, even before video, television syndication, and other media. So Universal was pretty stupid, it would appear, to break their contract. These weren't blockbusters by any means, but they were solid performers, and this is the backbone of most big studios...

Shame on you, Universal. Decisions like this is probably why you came so close to going under in the 80s and 90s.

Ian Jane
08-13-2010, 04:13 PM
I haven't seen Jim Caviezel in anything after he did Passion of the Christ.

He was in the remake of Long Weekend.

Adrian K.
08-13-2010, 04:18 PM
Top gun -> The Doors -> True Romance -> Batman Forever -> Heat -> The Island of Dr. Moreau -> Val Kilmer? Or does he just have a career-killing personality?

Kamyar
08-13-2010, 04:35 PM
I have this theory that it wasn't Oprah who killed Tom Cruise's career, it was Kubrick. Prior to "Eyes Wide Shut" he was the sunny All American boy, but ever since he did that film he not only showed his limitations as a "serious" actor, but also destroyed his spotless image because of the highly publicised divorce from Nicole Kidman (which interestingly enough jumpstarted her own career and made her bigger than she was before, despite being absolutely horrendous in said film).

Sure he starred in a lot of high-profile roles afterwards, but his roles were different in tone to the ones he previously had, for example playing a sleazy Playboy-bachelor (Vanilla Sky, Magnolia) or even the antagonist (Collateral).

cworkman
08-13-2010, 04:39 PM
Tom Cruise is terrific in EYES WIDE SHUT. And besides, his role in INTERVIEW WITH THE VAMPIRE (in which he's very, very good, far better than the oh-so-flat Brad Pitt) was anything but all-American. And after EWS, Cruise was terrific in the very successful WAR OF THE WORLDS (which is one of Spielberg's better films, I have to say). I agree that his divorce from Nicole Kidman contributed to a lot of people's dislike of him, but his performance on Oprah, his attack of Brooke Shields, and his angry match on NBC's Today Show were the real contributors to the public's current dislike of him rather than any single film appearance or group of appearances.

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 04:46 PM
I think he benefited from it, but the problem with Carpenter is that he's never known how to cash in on his own success. He makes films he wants to make and that isn't always popular. I mean, MEMOIRS OF AN INVISIBLE MAN wasn't exactly a low-budget film; it was intended to be a blockbuster, no doubt about it, but it wasn't very good.

So I'd argue that, less than the success of THE THING, Carpenter's own unevenness did him in. At times he's brilliant on big budget or small, and at times his work is terrible on big budget or small.

Quality has nothing to do with box office. Look at all the crap that reaps millions - I don't dispute that Carpenter's made some bad films, but I repeat: The Thing was the film that really damaged his career in its most promising phase. If it had succeeded, it would have resulted in a very different career path for him. I have no doubt of this.

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 04:47 PM
He's good in it, I'll agree. The problem is the dated hairstyle (which, I'm sure, the producers wanted because it was considered sexy at the time, despite the fact that men in the 1800s did NOT have such hairstyles). The scene utilizing The Who's laser machine is also very hokey.

Outside of that, though, I think it a terrific film that is highly underrated - and it's deserving of a BD release, though I hope Universal offers the original, theatrical, colorful version of the film on BD, not just the crappy, near-black and white version that was released on DVD (thank you, Mr. Badham - if I wanted to see a black and white version of the Dean-Hamilton tale, I'd just watch Universal's 1931 film with Bela Lugosi). Or, at the last, Universal, place BOTH versions on the disc.

The hair is only really over the top in the laser scene, I think... that was the Saturday Night Fever sequence, and it's out of place. Beyond that, he does a terrific job - and the hair has nothing to do with his acting, really; it's just a distraction - and I agree it is underrated.

Paul A J Lewis
08-13-2010, 04:57 PM
He was in the remake of Long Weekend.

And the better-than-expected reworking of McGoohan's THE PRISONER!

Steve R
08-13-2010, 04:58 PM
I sat in for a screening of Big Trouble In Little China. I worked in distribution at the time. It was early on a weekday. During that last scene when Jack Bruton is barrelling down the highway in The Porkchop Express and he's slinging that listen to Ol jack line into the CB radio. The shot pulls back enough so we see that creature climbing up the truck toward him....

I loved this film. The HK style martial arts with the over the top magic f/x, the wise ass hero who is actually just a friend of the real hero's. This was great. I was going over in my mind how many screens this would open in and what kind of repsonse would build.... when as the lights came up and I turned around and you could just tell in an instant that no one else in the room got it, liked it or would remember it in five minutes.

My professional mind cringed but my film lover's heart sank.

RichardDoyle
08-13-2010, 05:06 PM
What, no mention of MOMMIE DEAREST and Faye Dunaway yet?????

I don't think her career was in very good shape before "Mommie Dearest". Before this she was in the remake of "The Champ" and "The First Deadly Sin" ... two bombs.

RichardDoyle
08-13-2010, 05:11 PM
I wonder if Harvey Keitel's career might have been bigger had he not been fired from APOCALYPSE NOW.

Martin Sheen's career didn't exactly take off like a rocket, so I doubt it.

RichardDoyle
08-13-2010, 05:18 PM
Perhaps you're just being argumentative, but the concept behind the thread is crystal clear. As the initial post about Davis stated quite explicitly: she was a major star with a string of successful films - she made Cutthroat Island and her career was badly affected... no more big successful films, no more selling films on her name and participation, with attempts to do so meeting with middling results. Is this not clear? It has nothing to do with her talent.

But it's not true. Geena Davis was fairly big after "Thelma and Louise" and "A League of Their Own", but she then was in 5 consecutive flops:

Hero
Angie
Speechless
Cutthroat Island
The Long Kiss Goodnight

Why say that "Cutthroat Island" is the career killer when:

a) It's one out of a series of flops.
b) "The Long Kiss Goodnight" was a subsequent high-profile starring vehicle for her with the same director (Renny Harlin) and a hot screenwriter (Shane Black).

It seems like either her film was killed by the SERIES of flops, or it was in fact the failure of "The Long Kiss Goodnight" that finished her.

Luis Domenech
08-13-2010, 05:44 PM
Maybe Tarantino will cast Geena Davis in something and her career will take off again. He's worked wonders for lots of has-beens.

Daniel S.S.
08-13-2010, 06:35 PM
Leonard, Part 6 did Bill Cosby no favors.

How about Madonna and Shanghai Surprise?

Neither career killing in the sense that you never heard of either again but still...

I also thought Moment By Moment did a lot more damage to John Travolta's career than it did bit I see he did Urban Cowboy only a year and a half later.

I remember a couple of years ago watching a documentary on the making of Supergirl and Peter O'Toole, I believe, talking about how Helen Slater wouldn't be able to walk around in public after the movie is released because she'll be such a huge star. I guess that belongs in a "careers that were supposed to take off but didn't" thread along with Elizabeth Berkeley.

Jon Houghton
08-13-2010, 06:55 PM
even though he was barely in it, Fast Times At Ridgemont High SHOULD have killed Nicholas Cage's career, but unfortunately it seems like nothing will. :mad:

maybe The Sorcerer's Apprentice will do the job. I heard it is horrible

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 08:28 PM
But it's not true. Geena Davis was fairly big after "Thelma and Louise" and "A League of Their Own", but she then was in 5 consecutive flops:

Hero
Angie
Speechless
Cutthroat Island
The Long Kiss Goodnight

Why say that "Cutthroat Island" is the career killer when:

a) It's one out of a series of flops.
b) "The Long Kiss Goodnight" was a subsequent high-profile starring vehicle for her with the same director (Renny Harlin) and a hot screenwriter (Shane Black).

It seems like either her film was killed by the SERIES of flops, or it was in fact the failure of "The Long Kiss Goodnight" that finished her.

I admit, I'm not fully up on Davis' career so I was under the impression this was the one that did it. Perhaps this was the final nail in the coffin, then? Long Kiss wasn't a big sprawling film like this, even if she did star in it - I'd say CI is more indicative of a film designed to cash in on a star name and then proceeding to sully the star's reputation in the process.

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 08:29 PM
I sat in for a screening of Big Trouble In Little China. I worked in distribution at the time. It was early on a weekday. During that last scene when Jack Bruton is barrelling down the highway in The Porkchop Express and he's slinging that listen to Ol jack line into the CB radio. The shot pulls back enough so we see that creature climbing up the truck toward him....

I loved this film. The HK style martial arts with the over the top magic f/x, the wise ass hero who is actually just a friend of the real hero's. This was great. I was going over in my mind how many screens this would open in and what kind of repsonse would build.... when as the lights came up and I turned around and you could just tell in an instant that no one else in the room got it, liked it or would remember it in five minutes.

My professional mind cringed but my film lover's heart sank.

One of the things the executives at Fox hated was that Burton was a posturing goon who never gets anything done... the very notion that his Asian "sidekick" would be the real hero, all the while Burton is made to look a fool, was very hard for them to swallow, according to Carpenter.

cworkman
08-13-2010, 09:08 PM
Quality has nothing to do with box office. Look at all the crap that reaps millions - I don't dispute that Carpenter's made some bad films, but I repeat: The Thing was the film that really damaged his career in its most promising phase. If it had succeeded, it would have resulted in a very different career path for him. I have no doubt of this.

Since this is all surmise on our parts, if THE THING had been a huge success and he went on to make a lot more big budget movies, it's wholly possible that his films would have turned out worse than they actually did, with fewer hits and more misses. Other than THE THING (and I have no idea what the budget on that film was like), his bigger budgeted pictures tend to be less interesting, too commercial, and somewhat vapid compared to his smaller, more heartfelt pictures.

Troy Howarth
08-13-2010, 09:38 PM
So you don't believe that the failure of The Thing (which cost a pretty penny - not obscenely expensive, but expensive for somebody like Carpenter, especially at that stage in his career) had no negative impact on his career? Sorry, but I can't agree with you there. I don't think it's true to say that his bigger films tend to be soulless, though it is true that he lost control of Memoirs of an Invisible Man. His filmography is uneven, but I like more than I dislike.

Jason Lee
08-13-2010, 10:03 PM
The trouble with a lot of Carpenter's films (esp THE THING..BIG TROUBLE) are that they were a little ahead of their time...so when they were released, not many got the idea....of course, today people can look back and admire them more...

oh, and as for Renny Harlin's career being killed...he is BACK in a BIG WAY....he just made TEKKEN THE MOVIE:eek::D

Ian Jane
08-13-2010, 10:21 PM
And the better-than-expected reworking of McGoohan's THE PRISONER!

Better than you expected, maybe. ;)

OK, fine, it wasn't that bad.

Marshall Crist
08-13-2010, 11:19 PM
One of the things the executives at Fox hated was that Burton was a posturing goon who never gets anything done... the very notion that his Asian "sidekick" would be the real hero, all the while Burton is made to look a fool, was very hard for them to swallow, according to Carpenter.

Wasn't HONG KONG FOOEY based on this premise also?

cworkman
08-13-2010, 11:53 PM
So you don't believe that the failure of The Thing (which cost a pretty penny - not obscenely expensive, but expensive for somebody like Carpenter, especially at that stage in his career) had no negative impact on his career? Sorry, but I can't agree with you there. I don't think it's true to say that his bigger films tend to be soulless, though it is true that he lost control of Memoirs of an Invisible Man. His filmography is uneven, but I like more than I dislike.

Did I say that, Troy? I don't think I did. What I think I said was that it's possible that if THE THING had been a success, Carpenter might have gone on to a career in big budget films and been corrupted by that (like so many artists have). Not necessarily, of course, but we have absolutely no way of knowing because it's all assumption on our part.

Either way, for me he's very hit or miss, and other than THE THING and STARMAN I don't tend to like his bigger budgeted (relatively speaking) films. I like the smaller ones.

Daniel M
08-14-2010, 12:07 AM
According to Tobe Hooper, the "Who Directed Poltergeist?" controversy kept him unemployed for three years during what was arguably the hottest period of his career, despite the film being a resounding financial (if not critical) success.

Robert Clouse of "Enter The Dragon" and "Black Belt Jones" never got another film into theaters after the debacle that was "Gymkata."

Much earlier in this thread, someone asked "Does Val Kilmer have a career-killing personality?" - This reminded me of a quote by Kim Basinger, who starred in and produced "The Real McCoy." She fought to get him cast in the film, and then watched as he went out of his way to deliver the most half-assed performance possible.

She described his work as a deliberate attempt to sabotage the film.

Richard R.
08-14-2010, 01:08 AM
Eric Roberts in STAR 80.

Sometimes an actor can be too good in a role.....

Good one!

Also: Steve Railsback in HELTER SKELTER.

cworkman
08-14-2010, 01:10 AM
Kilmer is known for having sabotaged several films, and while it seems to have worked (the most egregious example being getting Stanley fired from THE ISLAND OF DR. MOREAU), in the end he sabotaged his own career as well. Where is he now??? He was once a promising star; today he's a pathetic has-been.

Robin Bougie
08-14-2010, 05:10 AM
I'm utterly amazed that Nicholas Cage still has a very active and successful career, considering how many patently terrible movies he's been in in the last 15 years, and continues to make even still. (Have you seen the trailers for the upcoming SORCERERS APPRENTICE? Gaaaah...) No accounting for taste, I guess -- but it is interesting to see what has become of him considering how many great movies he was in back in the 80s. As for the future of Cage: As long as his dung continues to turn a profit, he'll do fine.

Jason Lee
08-14-2010, 07:02 AM
Kilmer is known for having sabotaged several films, and while it seems to have worked (the most egregious example being getting Stanley fired from THE ISLAND OF DR. MOREAU), in the end he sabotaged his own career as well. Where is he now??? He was once a promising star; today he's a pathetic has-been.


As far as I remember reading, Kilmer's family was VERY rich before he even started making movies...so he has no "need" to have a big career...and his behaviour shows the same I think!!!:D

Even if he was a regular actor, you can't really say his career has been killed as he has been steadily working...

From the new movie MCGruber..through to BAD LIEUTENANT PORT OF CALL NEW ORLEANS....right down to KITT's voice in the new Knight Rider...

Jonathan Douglas
08-14-2010, 08:41 AM
That's what I'd say as well, career means many things, when hearing the expression career killing I tend to think more in lines of a full stop. Costner's not had a hit in ages despite many fans so his name shall remain first in the credits, Kim Basinger doesn't get right front billings anymore though, think her film BLESS THE CHILD sank quickly and I'd imagine it's her last big solo vehicle but killed her career not so sure. Demi Moore, no hits in ages but still a star, especially in Europe where many of these names are continuously loved and pampered.

Guillaume P
08-14-2010, 09:57 AM
Tom Cruise is terrific in EYES WIDE SHUT. And besides, his role in INTERVIEW WITH THE VAMPIRE (in which he's very, very good, far better than the oh-so-flat Brad Pitt)

I agree,and he was also very good in COLLATERAL,i think.


I sat in for a screening of Big Trouble In Little China. I worked in distribution at the time. It was early on a weekday. During that last scene when Jack Bruton is barrelling down the highway in The Porkchop Express and he's slinging that listen to Ol jack line into the CB radio. The shot pulls back enough so we see that creature climbing up the truck toward him....

I loved this film. The HK style martial arts with the over the top magic f/x, the wise ass hero who is actually just a friend of the real hero's. This was great. I was going over in my mind how many screens this would open in and what kind of repsonse would build.... when as the lights came up and I turned around and you could just tell in an instant that no one else in the room got it, liked it or would remember it in five minutes.

My professional mind cringed but my film lover's heart sank.

In France BIG TROUBLE was sold like a kind of INDIANA JONES picture,and in fact the film was better than the INDIANA JONES films and in the same time a fun mocking of these Spielberg films!! (Jack Burton is a so clumsy ,silly and inept all american hero!)

Guillaume P
08-14-2010, 10:07 AM
his bigger budgeted pictures tend to be less interesting, too commercial, and somewhat vapid compared to his smaller, more heartfelt pictures.

I love "Christine" but according to Carpenter himself his heart wasn't really in the film,mostly because of the fact that "the thing" tanked.
I also really like "Starman" and,to a lesser extent,his other big budget "Memoirs of an invisible man",but i'm not sure that Carpenter himself thinks that both are "personal" films.

Troy Howarth
08-14-2010, 01:10 PM
Did I say that, Troy? I don't think I did. What I think I said was that it's possible that if THE THING had been a success, Carpenter might have gone on to a career in big budget films and been corrupted by that (like so many artists have). Not necessarily, of course, but we have absolutely no way of knowing because it's all assumption on our part.

Either way, for me he's very hit or miss, and other than THE THING and STARMAN I don't tend to like his bigger budgeted (relatively speaking) films. I like the smaller ones.

You don't always have to expliticly say things in order to make your meaning clear, Chris - I think I know you pretty well by now. ;)

In any event, Carpenter is one director we certainly don't see eye to eye on.

Troy Howarth
08-14-2010, 01:11 PM
That's what I'd say as well, career means many things, when hearing the expression career killing I tend to think more in lines of a full stop. Costner's not had a hit in ages despite many fans so his name shall remain first in the credits, Kim Basinger doesn't get right front billings anymore though, think her film BLESS THE CHILD sank quickly and I'd imagine it's her last big solo vehicle but killed her career not so sure. Demi Moore, no hits in ages but still a star, especially in Europe where many of these names are continuously loved and pampered.

Europeans tend to be more movie crazy and appreciative of people who've had success than we are in the States. Here you're only as big as your most recent film, in my respects.

Troy Howarth
08-14-2010, 01:11 PM
Kilmer is known for having sabotaged several films, and while it seems to have worked (the most egregious example being getting Stanley fired from THE ISLAND OF DR. MOREAU), in the end he sabotaged his own career as well. Where is he now??? He was once a promising star; today he's a pathetic has-been.

As has been pointed out, he's still working... he's no longer a big star, but even if the man is an asshole (and I don't doubt that he is) he's a fine actor.

Vincent Pereira
08-14-2010, 08:45 PM
"Wild Orchid" helped kill Mickey Rourke's career for a long while and "Harley Davidson and the Motorcycle Man" was another nail in the coffin for him AND Don Johnson. "Hudson Hawk" SHOULD have killed Bruce Willis' career, but it DID kill the career of Michael Lehman (director of "Heathers")...

Lehman's been making a bit of a comeback as a frequent director on HBO's hugely popular TRUE BLOOD series.

Vincent

cworkman
08-14-2010, 09:07 PM
I'm utterly amazed that Nicholas Cage still has a very active and successful career, considering how many patently terrible movies he's been in in the last 15 years, and continues to make even still. (Have you seen the trailers for the upcoming SORCERERS APPRENTICE? Gaaaah...) No accounting for taste, I guess -- but it is interesting to see what has become of him considering how many great movies he was in back in the 80s. As for the future of Cage: As long as his dung continues to turn a profit, he'll do fine.

I agree with you 100%. By the way, THE SORCERER'S APPRENTICE came out a few weeks ago, didn't it, and totally tanked??? (Which is why it might seem that it's upcoming.)

cworkman
08-14-2010, 09:08 PM
As has been pointed out, he's still working... he's no longer a big star, but even if the man is an asshole (and I don't doubt that he is) he's a fine actor.

I love Kilmer's work, but he's not working in anything other than low-budget crap today.

Look, I wish the guy could pull his shit together. He's amazing in TOMBSTONE.

cworkman
08-14-2010, 09:11 PM
I love "Christine" but according to Carpenter himself his heart wasn't really in the film,mostly because of the fact that "the thing" tanked.
I also really like "Starman" and,to a lesser extent,his other big budget "Memoirs of an invisible man",but i'm not sure that Carpenter himself thinks that both are "personal" films.

I like CHRISTINE, actually, love THE THING, and really like STARMAN. But MEMOIRS OF AN INVISIBLE MAN, IN THE MOUTH OF MADNESS, GHOST OF MARS, ESCAPE FROM L.A., VAMPIRES I can live without.

Troy Howarth
08-14-2010, 10:11 PM
I love Kilmer's work, but he's not working in anything other than low-budget crap today.

Look, I wish the guy could pull his shit together. He's amazing in TOMBSTONE.

I wouldn't call Herzog's Bad Lieutenant "low budget crap." It's not a showcase role for him, but it's a film by a well respected director.

paul h.
08-14-2010, 10:30 PM
I love Kilmer's work, but he's not working in anything other than low-budget crap today.

Look, I wish the guy could pull his shit together. He's amazing in TOMBSTONE.

I liked his performances in fairly recent SPARTAN and KISS KISS BANG BANG, which were at least not direct to dvd garbage. He seems to thrive on roles in which he is cast as a pariah (and an asshole), and he also seems to exhibit these traits on the set.

It makes getting into character very easy, I'll wager, but you're not making many friends.

paul h.
08-14-2010, 10:40 PM
Maybe Tarantino will cast Geena Davis in something and her career will take off again. He's worked wonders for lots of has-beens.

That made me think of this:

John Travolta's career took a huge nose dive after STAYING ALIVE, and Tarantino helped resurrect him with PULP FICTION. This, and subsequent events, gave him the power to make the terrible BATTLEFIELD EARTH. However, EARTH didn't really stop his career again, as he's still getting work in fairly high profile films (in box-office receipt terms).


Also- anyone else notice that Val Kilmer and John Travolta have almost identical physiques at this point? Weird.

Steven Millan
08-14-2010, 11:07 PM
That's what I'd say as well, career means many things, when hearing the expression career killing I tend to think more in lines of a full stop. Costner's not had a hit in ages despite many fans so his name shall remain first in the credits, Kim Basinger doesn't get right front billings anymore though, think her film BLESS THE CHILD sank quickly and I'd imagine it's her last big solo vehicle but killed her career not so sure. Demi Moore, no hits in ages but still a star, especially in Europe where many of these names are continuously loved and pampered.


Kevin Costner and Demi Moore also did mediocre ghost movies that went straight-to-DVD(whose titles I can't remember at the moment).

cworkman
08-15-2010, 12:01 AM
I wouldn't call Herzog's Bad Lieutenant "low budget crap." It's not a showcase role for him, but it's a film by a well respected director.

It's certainly not big budget, and whether or not one thinks it's crap depends on the beholder.

Jason Lee
08-15-2010, 10:41 AM
It's certainly not big budget, and whether or not one thinks it's crap depends on the beholder.


Its directed by a well respected director and I think Nic cage (love him or hate him) makes it a little above a low budget movie (not in $ terms..in star power)

Hw was in KISS KISS BANG BANG with Downey jr too right?..that was pretty big...

I think Kilmer just chooses what he wants to do..rather than going for big budget movies and fame for the sake of it...

I want this thread to be FILMS THAT KILLED A CAREER STONE COLD DEAD!!

Madonna..."swept away" type bad!!

Aaron G
08-15-2010, 11:04 AM
THE TIME MACHINE fucked Guy Pierce's career, which is a shame coz he's the best of the contemorary Aussie actors.

I wish something will kill fucken Russell Crowe's career, and hopefully THE ROAD kills John Hillcoat's career and all he ever makes are Nick Cave videos.

Kamyar
08-15-2010, 11:43 AM
What?! I loved "The Road"!

I'm surprised that "Southland Tales" didn't have a big effect on the people involved in the making of it. I was a 100% sure that this was it for Richard Kelly, but he was able to make the fairly high-profile (but still flop-tastic) "The Box" afterwards.

Alex K.
08-15-2010, 11:58 AM
I want this thread to be FILMS THAT KILLED A CAREER STONE COLD DEAD!!

Madonna..."swept away" type bad!!

Sofia Coppola in Godfather 3? That killed her acting career.

Guillaume P
08-15-2010, 12:18 PM
THE SORCERER'S APPRENTICE came out a few weeks ago, didn't it, and totally tanked??? (Which is why it might seem that it's upcoming.)

and the film wasn't bad,in fact:o
fine performances from Cage,Molina and the kid,good special effects and a tight pace...a fun entertainement for the whole family!:)


I liked his performances in fairly recent SPARTAN and KISS KISS BANG BANG

he was also very good in HEAT and THE SALTON SEA.

Jason Lee
08-15-2010, 12:44 PM
Sofia Coppola in Godfather 3? That killed her acting career.

Thats more like it!!!:D


Hold on a minute.....that was ACTING????:eek:

cworkman
08-15-2010, 12:47 PM
Its directed by a well respected director and I think Nic cage (love him or hate him) makes it a little above a low budget movie (not in $ terms..in star power)

Hw was in KISS KISS BANG BANG with Downey jr too right?..that was pretty big...

I think Kilmer just chooses what he wants to do..rather than going for big budget movies and fame for the sake of it...

I want this thread to be FILMS THAT KILLED A CAREER STONE COLD DEAD!!

Madonna..."swept away" type bad!!

It's now been a few years since KISS KISS BANG BANG came out, and when it did, it came and went pretty fast. It was not a box office success, really. I'm sure it did much better on DVD, but then, most movies do.

Troy Howarth
08-15-2010, 02:07 PM
It's certainly not big budget, and whether or not one thinks it's crap depends on the beholder.

Have you seen it? You may want to see it before you pronounce all the films the man is acting in are crap. That would seem to be the reasonable thing to do. I understand and agree with your general point that he's not making big films these days, but it is an unfair generalization to dismiss them all as crap without seeing them.

Vincent Pereira
08-15-2010, 02:22 PM
...

I want this thread to be FILMS THAT KILLED A CAREER STONE COLD DEAD!!!

In that case, Michael Cimino and THE SUNCHASER. HEAVEN'S GATE was previously mentioned in this thread but while that film undoubtedly hurt his career in a profound way, he still made several films after it. On the other hand, THE SUNCHASER- barely released by Warner Bros. in 1996- really seems to have nailed the coffin shut on his directing career.

Vincent

Troy Howarth
08-15-2010, 02:24 PM
Wow, never even HEARD of that one. I can't think of any other films that completely obliterated a career. Peeping Tom certainly finished Powell in the UK, but he went to Australia and made some films there. I don't know - films that completely destroyed careers have to be pretty darn rare.

cworkman
08-15-2010, 02:27 PM
No, I haven't seen EVERYTHING, but I have seen that - and hated it. (As well as MANY of his other more recent films - God bless the Dayton Metro Library system for carrying everything under the sun.)

That said, I don't have to see every single thing, because I was speaking in generalizations. Of course there are almost always going to be exceptions to any generalization, but I think common sense should make that clear. It's like having to state "in my opinion" every time someone states an opinion. Well, that should be a given.

Troy Howarth
08-15-2010, 02:31 PM
Yes, Chris, I understand that concept.

cworkman
08-15-2010, 02:54 PM
That's good, because the suggestion - and I'm sure this wasn't intentional, but it came out this way - was that I was making judgments without having seen something as a whole, which I try very hard not to do. I do make generalizations when I've seen quite a bit of something (in this case, Val Kilmer movies, old and new).

Kilmer was and IS an excellent actor, but his career, all but a few minor roles here and there, is pretty much over at the moment. Personally, I hope he turns this around someday and climbs back on top a la Mickey Rourke, who gives absolutely the best performance in IRON MAN 2 (he's stunning).

Troy Howarth
08-15-2010, 03:07 PM
Everybody makes generalizations, but sometimes they are unfair - and they should be avoided, IMO, as best as possible. Given that you never spoke of the Herzog film, though, I can hardly be faulted for not knowing that you had seen it.

Daniel M
08-18-2010, 04:31 PM
BAD LIEUTENANT: PORT OF CALL NEW ORLEANS...A Werner Herzog film starring Nicolas Cage, Eva Mendes, Val Kilmer and Brad Dourif that's won three awards and been nominated for six others. 87% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes and an imdb rating of 7.0 based on nearly 19,000 votes.

Not trying to put too fine a point on it but this is the first thread I've seen where it was even implied the film was low-budget (granted it wasn't big-budget in the TRANSFORMERS sense) or not a critical and/or financial success.

FWIW it was my favorite film of last year after INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS and THE ROAD. I noticed an earlier poster suggested that THE ROAD will be a career-killer for John Hillcoat but he's going strong with RED DEAD REDEMPTION and a number of projects in development.

RichardDoyle
08-18-2010, 05:16 PM
One of the things the executives at Fox hated was that Burton was a posturing goon who never gets anything done... the very notion that his Asian "sidekick" would be the real hero, all the while Burton is made to look a fool, was very hard for them to swallow, according to Carpenter.

Which really illustrates for me how far off my thinking is from mainstream tastes. I think that's one of the best things about the film.

RichardDoyle
08-18-2010, 05:21 PM
I'm utterly amazed that Nicholas Cage still has a very active and successful career, considering how many patently terrible movies he's been in in the last 15 years, and continues to make even still. (Have you seen the trailers for the upcoming SORCERERS APPRENTICE? Gaaaah...) No accounting for taste, I guess -- but it is interesting to see what has become of him considering how many great movies he was in back in the 80s. As for the future of Cage: As long as his dung continues to turn a profit, he'll do fine.

Upcoming? That was released about a month ago.

Jon Houghton
08-18-2010, 05:24 PM
Upcoming? That was released about a month ago.

since I work as an usher at a movie theater I have to watch the last 5 minutes of everything that plays, and I haven't seen such awful garbage as The Sorcerers Apprentice in a very long time. How you make an hour and a half long movie out of a very short segment from Fantasia is beyond the scope of my comprehension, but apparently they did it(and I hear it totally bombed).

RichardDoyle
08-18-2010, 05:26 PM
since I work as an usher at a movie theater I have to watch the last 5 minutes of everything that plays, and I haven't seen such awful garbage as The Sorcerers Apprentice in a very long time. How you make an hour and a half long movie out of a very short segment from Fantasia is beyond the scope of my comprehension, but apparently they did it(and I hear it totally bombed).

It's all the fault of "Pirates of the Caribbean". Bruckheimer is now hell-bent on turning every scrap of Disney into a big budget action film.

Jon Houghton
08-18-2010, 05:29 PM
It's all the fault of "Pirates of the Caribbean". Bruckheimer is now hell-bent on turning every scrap of Disney into a big budget action film.

yeah that would explain everything. not sure who puts out more brainless garbage, Jerry Bruckheimer or Michael Bay?

RichardDoyle
08-18-2010, 05:34 PM
That's good, because the suggestion - and I'm sure this wasn't intentional, but it came out this way - was that I was making judgments without having seen something as a whole, which I try very hard not to do. I do make generalizations when I've seen quite a bit of something (in this case, Val Kilmer movies, old and new).

Kilmer was and IS an excellent actor, but his career, all but a few minor roles here and there, is pretty much over at the moment. Personally, I hope he turns this around someday and climbs back on top a la Mickey Rourke, who gives absolutely the best performance in IRON MAN 2 (he's stunning).

When exactly was Val Kilmer's career high? When I look at his filmography, I see pretty much a continuation of the same career all along ... very few big roles surrounded by a lot of smaller roles in more obscure films.

Most specifically, his career 5 years before and after "The Island of Dr. Moreau" look identical.

Isn't it pretty damn likely that his recent like of leading man roles can be chalked up to the fact that he's now in his early 50's and ain't no pretty boy no more?

Andrew Ellis
08-18-2010, 06:08 PM
Speaking of Nicholas Cage, Jerry Bruckheimer, and Michael Bay, have you noticed some people today have careers that simply can't BE killed? I'd like to put a big stake through all of their hearts, but I don't think such a stake exists. . . .

Troy Howarth
08-18-2010, 07:06 PM
When exactly was Val Kilmer's career high? When I look at his filmography, I see pretty much a continuation of the same career all along ... very few big roles surrounded by a lot of smaller roles in more obscure films.

Most specifically, his career 5 years before and after "The Island of Dr. Moreau" look identical.

Isn't it pretty damn likely that his recent like of leading man roles can be chalked up to the fact that he's now in his early 50's and ain't no pretty boy no more?

I'd say that more or less nails it... it's hard for actors to maintain lead status, but as you say his choices have generally tended towards the eccentric, with some definite highlights here and there.

Marshall Crist
08-18-2010, 07:22 PM
It's all the fault of "Pirates of the Caribbean". Bruckheimer is now hell-bent on turning every scrap of Disney into a big budget action film.

I would see a "MONSANTO'S ADVENTURE THRU INNER SPACE" film. Although if Bruckheimer were involved, perhaps not.

Daniel M
08-21-2010, 09:22 PM
MATTERHORN, a star-studded, 70s Irwin Allen disaster opus. I'd watch it.

Garrett Sorensen
08-22-2010, 04:51 AM
Chloe Sevigny - Brown Bunny

Not that she hasn't been getting work in TV and small movie roles since then (I wonder what Woody was thinking hiring her) but she has successfully blown off any mainstream cinematic success. Oh yes, that seed of potential has been completely sucked dry. She should have spit out the foul taste of failure and moved on, but I'm afraid she swallowed it deep down and it stayed with her. From Oscar nomination to Gallo's Oscar meyer w.......okay, I'm done.

Friedkin - Sorcerer
Bogdanovich - That one where Burt Reynold's sings I guess.
Robert Rodriguez - Grindhouse (time shall see, as Peter above knows, the public holds a gurdge against a cheating husband. Loved Shorts, sad to see it bomb.)
Eddie Murphy - Norbit (cost him an oscar and any non voice over hits. But nothing keeps him down, not even underage prostitution.)
Dar Robinson - Million Dollar Mystery (hasn't done a damn thing since.)
Leonardo diCaprio - Sin City (in a glorious alternate dimension.)

Jonathan H.
08-22-2010, 11:38 AM
Dar Robinson - Million Dollar Mystery (hasn't done a damn thing since.)


OUCH! Reminds me of the time I saw a hardcore band in NY in '99 who had dubbed themselves "the JFK Jr. Royal Air Force" after the scion's death in a plane crash.

Albert P
08-22-2010, 07:44 PM
I don't think anyone's mentioned these yet. I'm fairly certain several careers were at least stalled by each. All worth watching though!

INCUBUS
MYRA BRECKINRIDGE
CANNIBAL HOLOCAUST
DEEP THROAT
CALIGULA
TANK GIRL

Chris Kewley
08-23-2010, 09:04 AM
I see that Emilio Estevez has been in a few things post Mighty Ducks 3 but I guess it was Mighty Ducks 2 that killed his career. I did hear that it was his choice he moved away from acting but don't know?

Troy Howarth
08-23-2010, 02:30 PM
INCUBUS


You mean to one with John Cassavetes... I doubt that got enough exposure to hurt anyone, honestly.

Daniel M
08-23-2010, 03:20 PM
It would never occur to me to put John Hough's INCUBUS on this list. Hough went directly into TRIUMPHS OF A MAN CALLED HORSE with Richard Harris after this film, and Cassavetes did TEMPEST and LOVE STREAMS.

Blake L.
08-23-2010, 04:50 PM
You mean to one with John Cassavetes... I doubt that got enough exposure to hurt anyone, honestly.

Considering the muddled ending, it could have been a career killer for the editor.

The Incubus has always frustrated me. It could have been a great, nasty little horror film, but it just never comes together at all. The script is a mess. The conversation in the bar between Cassavetes and Kerrie Keane is totally ripe and implausible.

Garrett Sorensen
08-23-2010, 05:00 PM
OUCH! Reminds me of the time I saw a hardcore band in NY in '99 who had dubbed themselves "the JFK Jr. Royal Air Force" after the scion's death in a plane crash.

I didn't mean to be completely crass. I had just watched him in his USA VHS label special "The World's Most Spectacular Stuntman" made a few years before he died. Completely bizarre to do all the crazy shit on the Grand Canyon and Toronto Tower but die simply joyriding on a bike off camera. Sad to see him with his kids and then talk about how his fellow stuntmen had been kicking the bucket recently.

Troy Howarth
08-23-2010, 06:52 PM
Considering the muddled ending, it could have been a career killer for the editor.

The Incubus has always frustrated me. It could have been a great, nasty little horror film, but it just never comes together at all. The script is a mess. The conversation in the bar between Cassavetes and Kerrie Keane is totally ripe and implausible.

I don't know that it's all in the editing - Hough doesn't do much with it, frankly, and the script is bad to begin with. Cassavetes is the best thing about it.

Daniel M
08-23-2010, 06:57 PM
It's actually all in Ray Russell's source novel; an ending that seems "existential" on the page comes off as "non-existent" on the screen.

From the Avengers to Hammer to Disney to demons, I've always been quite a Hough devotee, but I don't consider this one of his finer moments.

Steve R
08-23-2010, 08:30 PM
TANK GIRL

Hmmm. Lori Petty seemed primed after Point Break and Free Willy to do more.

She's been great in the other things I've seen her in, but I really expected her to get much more work after those two. Do you think that tank movie with James Garner really did her in? Never thought about it till now.

Albert P
08-23-2010, 09:13 PM
You mean to one with John Cassavetes... I doubt that got enough exposure to hurt anyone, honestly.
Troy, actually I mean the 1965 Leslie Stevens (Outer Limits) film in Esperanto. I love it, but apparently everyone except William Shatner & Conrad Hall (cinematographer) fell on hard times after working on it. Some even claim it was cursed.:eek:

Albert P
08-23-2010, 09:22 PM
TANK GIRL

Hmmm. Lori Petty seemed primed after Point Break and Free Willy to do more.

She's been great in the other things I've seen her in, but I really expected her to get much more work after those two. Do you think that tank movie with James Garner really did her in? Never thought about it till now.
I've liked her in just about every film she's done. I think TANK GIRL didn't just hurt her career. The creators of the comic and I suspect some of the actors had problems when it lost something like 21 million box office dollars.

Daniel M
08-23-2010, 09:46 PM
Based on ALL THE RIGHT MOVES and his obvious visual talents, I remember thinking ace cinematographer Michael Chapman (TAXI DRIVER, RAGING BULL) was poised to become an A-level Hollywood director.

Then CLAN OF THE CAVE BEAR was released.

He's continued to work camera (BRIDGE TO TERABITHIA is his most recent credit) but a movie-of-the-week and a straight-to-video viking flick are the only things he's directed in the past 24 years.

Albert P
08-23-2010, 09:51 PM
Then CLAN OF THE CAVE BEAR was released.

Ouch.

Troy Howarth
08-23-2010, 09:56 PM
Troy, actually I mean the 1965 Leslie Stevens (Outer Limits) film in Esperanto. I love it, but apparently everyone except William Shatner & Conrad Hall (cinematographer) fell on hard times after working on it. Some even claim it was cursed.:eek:

I was thinking it could have been that one, too... but surely Star Trek was post-this? Perhaps I'm wrong about that - I'm admittedly not a Trekkie. I've always been curious to see this one...

Albert P
08-23-2010, 10:10 PM
I was thinking it could have been that one, too... but surely Star Trek was post-this? Perhaps I'm wrong about that - I'm admittedly not a Trekkie. I've always been curious to see this one...
Yeah Shatner and Hall went on to great things, but tragedy seems to have followed everyone else. I think you'd at least get a kick out of INCUBUS. If forced, I'd compare it to ONIBABA meets OUTER LIMITS.;)

Troy Howarth
08-23-2010, 10:11 PM
I'll be checking it out, for sure!

Paul Casey
08-23-2010, 10:13 PM
Maybe you can pick up a little Esperanto while you're at it.

Steven Millan
08-24-2010, 01:06 AM
I've liked her in just about every film she's done. I think TANK GIRL didn't just hurt her career. The creators of the comic and I suspect some of the actors had problems when it lost something like 21 million box office dollars.


The careers of both Malcolm McDowell and Ice-T took a major nosedive after this film badly tanked(at the box office).

Steven Millan
08-24-2010, 01:09 AM
Sylvia Kristel ----- EMMANUELLE 7(the worst,lamest,and most boring of the series) and BEAUTY SCHOOL(a boneheaded comedy with HELLRAISER 3's Kevin Bernhardt and J.J. North[who also left the silver screen after appearing in this film]),which were both her last two films.

Troy Howarth
08-24-2010, 10:53 AM
Maybe you can pick up a little Esperanto while you're at it.

Espereble!

Ian F
08-24-2010, 11:03 AM
The careers of both Malcolm McDowell and Ice-T took a major nosedive after this film badly tanked(at the box office).

You can't kill Malcolm McDowell's career, hell I doubt you can even injury it, he's the last of Classy Trashy Brits (Cushing, Pleasence, Lee). They will always have roles for them even if in junk. That doesn't mean they're bad, it just means their name will always have value.

Besides he was also in Fist of the North Star a little later.

Even Rob Zombie couldn't hurt his career. :D

Troy Howarth
08-24-2010, 11:05 AM
McDowell hasn't been a major box office draw in years, but yeah - he's always working, whether films sell on his name or not.

Ian F
08-24-2010, 11:07 AM
McDowell hasn't been a major box office draw in years, but yeah - he's always working, whether films sell on his name or not.

Was McDowell ever a box office draw?

I think his name sells though. It's the Italian Principle, for non-US markets, the name is recognizable and thus adds marquee value. I mean was John Saxon ever a box office draw (I love the guy), no, but was he marquee value (especially after Enter the Dragon), yes.

Terry Carpenter
08-24-2010, 11:10 AM
Maybe you can pick up a little Esperanto while you're at it.

http://www.gtagaming.com/images/gta3/autos/esperanto.jpg

Troy Howarth
08-24-2010, 11:18 AM
Was McDowell ever a box office draw?

I think his name sells though. It's the Italian Principle, for non-US markets, the name is recognizable and thus adds marquee value. I mean was John Saxon ever a box office draw (I love the guy), no, but was he marquee value (especially after Enter the Dragon), yes.

Around the time of Clockwork Orange and the Lindsay Anderson films I'd say so, yes.

And Saxon was definitely a draw for a period of time - he was played up big time by Universal in the 50s and early 60s as their new latin lover type.

Steve R
08-24-2010, 02:40 PM
John Saxon (Ropper)

There was a guy who started appearing in films in the late sixties, worked a lot in the 70s & 80s who looked an awful lot like John Saxon. I'd see him and think it was Saxon and think Saxon should get better parts than this, then realize it was this other guy and be disappointed it wasn't Saxon. I think that hurt his career.

I think he was in Bullit with Steve Mcqueen... You know the guy?

Troy Howarth
08-24-2010, 02:42 PM
Nah, I can't think of who you mean... it would indeed suck, though, if a lookalike were to draw attention away from the real deal - but it's happened with others, too, I'm sure.

Steve R
08-24-2010, 02:54 PM
Don Gordon

Check it out

Paul Casey
08-24-2010, 03:10 PM
There was a stretch of like two months when Don Gordon turned up in everything I watched. It was unbelievable.

Kristian R
08-24-2010, 03:12 PM
There was a stretch of like two months when Don Gordon turned up in everything I watched. It was unbelievable.

I don't believe you.

Troy Howarth
08-24-2010, 03:21 PM
OK, I'm know him to see him now... I'd agree there's a slight resemblance to Saxon, perhaps not that strong, but I can see where they'd be confused.

Ian F
08-24-2010, 03:24 PM
The Clones of John Saxon! I'd see that!

Troy Howarth
08-24-2010, 03:32 PM
Ditto!

Shane K
08-24-2010, 03:52 PM
Once Bob Clark directed Rhinestone, his fate would be sealed. He then went on to direct complete pieces of shit like Baby Geniuses, Superbabies: Baby Geniuses 2, and Karate Dog... just to name a few. It's really a crying fucking shame, especially considering all of his past directorial and writing efforts.

james_brummel
08-24-2010, 04:05 PM
TWILIGHT ZONE--THE MOVIE

hardy har har

What about The Crow with Brandon Lee? Haven't seen much of him lately

RichardDoyle
08-24-2010, 05:31 PM
Once Bob Clark directed Rhinestone, his fate would be sealed. He then went on to direct complete pieces of shit like Baby Geniuses, Superbabies: Baby Geniuses 2, and Karate Dog... just to name a few. It's really a crying fucking shame, especially considering all of his past directorial and writing efforts.

It's not that immediate. Both "Turk 182!" and "Loose Cannons" were pretty well promoted mainstream films. His serious decline into those crappy films is a whole decade after "Rhinestone". It didn't even kill Dolly Parton's film career ... she still made "Steel Magnolias" right after "Rhinestone".

Jonathan H.
08-24-2010, 07:12 PM
It's not that immediate. Both "Turk 182!" and "Loose Cannons" were pretty well promoted mainstream films. His serious decline into those crappy films is a whole decade after "Rhinestone". It didn't even kill Dolly Parton's film career ... she still made "Steel Magnolias" right after "Rhinestone".

STEEL MAGNOLIAS came 5 years after RHINESTONE. Perhaps that strengthens your argument...

Paul Casey
08-24-2010, 07:32 PM
I don't believe you.

WHADIDITELLYA?

Shane K
08-24-2010, 07:40 PM
It's not that immediate. Both "Turk 182!" and "Loose Cannons" were pretty well promoted mainstream films. His serious decline into those crappy films is a whole decade after "Rhinestone". It didn't even kill Dolly Parton's film career ... she still made "Steel Magnolias" right after "Rhinestone".

I the titles I typed weren't done for 15+ years after Rhinestone, and I'm very aware of that. I purposely chose those titles, since I feel that they're the worst of the bunch. In my eyes, Turk 182! and Loose Cannons, whether they were successful or not, are both downright terrible as well. Case in point, that is why I feel that he didn't direct anything good from Rhinestone on.

Dolly Parton has been able to have a lucractive career in entertainment, due mostly in part to her humongous tits. Sorry, but I calls 'em, like I sees 'em.

Of course these are only my opinions, I could be wrong. ;)

Ian F
08-24-2010, 08:47 PM
Wow, never even HEARD of that one. I can't think of any other films that completely obliterated a career. Peeping Tom certainly finished Powell in the UK, but he went to Australia and made some films there. I don't know - films that completely destroyed careers have to be pretty darn rare.

Yeah, people still let this guy make a movie!

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002337/#director

Steven Millan
08-24-2010, 08:49 PM
You can't kill Malcolm McDowell's career, hell I doubt you can even injury it, he's the last of Classy Trashy Brits (Cushing, Pleasence, Lee). They will always have roles for them even if in junk. That doesn't mean they're bad, it just means their name will always have value.

Besides he was also in Fist of the North Star a little later.

Even Rob Zombie couldn't hurt his career. :D


Resurrecting the careers of both Sid Haig and Malcolm McDowell were two of the few good things Rob Zombie even did(in his filmmaking career).

Daniel M
08-24-2010, 08:50 PM
I loved the guy, but Bob Clark made alot of movies I don't care for (and a few I genuinely like). But his imdb page shows him working quite steadily right up to his tragic and untimely death.

There may have been a few bumps in the road but there's no CLAN OF THE CAVE BEAR-magnitude career-ender in his filmography, either.

Ian F
08-24-2010, 08:53 PM
I loved the guy, but Bob Clark made alot of movies I don't care for (and a few I genuinely like). But his imdb page shows him working quite steadily right up to his tragic and untimely death.

There may have been a few bumps in the road but there's no CLAN OF THE CAVE BEAR-magnitude career-ender in his filmography, either.

Yeah, I mean he knew he was making shit, cashing checks, and didn't seem to upset from everything I've gathered.

Shane K
08-24-2010, 09:02 PM
There's no denying that Clan of the Cave Bear is the epitome of shit. But Michael Chapman remains first and foremost a cinematographer, not a director.

Bob Clark may have worked until his death, but his output went down the tubes, once he did Rhinestone. He never did anything again as the same caliber as Porky's, A Christmas Story, Deathdream... or even Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things, for that matter.

Daniel M
08-24-2010, 09:18 PM
Black Christmas is my favorite of all his films.

Shane K
08-24-2010, 09:50 PM
Same here.

Matthew BB
08-25-2010, 12:05 AM
I'm not sure if it was a legit film that did it or (more likely) a video he participated in, but up and coming 80's actor Stephen Geoffreys bottomed out as a mainstream film actor somehow.

But from what I understand, he did stay busy.

Jason Lee
08-25-2010, 07:07 AM
up and coming 80's actor Stephen Geoffreys bottomed out .
.

LOL!

Interesting turn of phrase there Matthew!!...Sums it up quite wel!

Troy Howarth
08-25-2010, 08:23 AM
I think it 'twas the video(s) that got him in the end. :D

Frank F
08-25-2010, 12:33 PM
The reception for "De Sade" (1969) did some damage to Keir Dullea's career. After that, He did not appear in another film until "Pope Joan" (1972), which may have been worse than De Sade! Spent most of the seventies doing low budget UK-Canadian co-productions (Blood City, Paul & Michelle), didn't make an impression on U.S. audiences till 1984, when He appeared in 2010.

Glen Davis
08-25-2010, 02:35 PM
A few films that effectively aborted film careers:

Barb Wire killed Pamela Anderson's hopes.

Fair Games killed Cindy Crawford's hopes of becoming an actress.

Venus, okay, a TV movie, killed Vanna White's.

The Oscar aborted Tony Bennett's transition.

and, Thank all that is holy, Sincerely Yours killed Liberace's film career before it ever really began.

RichardDoyle
08-25-2010, 05:15 PM
STEEL MAGNOLIAS came 5 years after RHINESTONE. Perhaps that strengthens your argument...

I mean "immediately" in the sense that she made no other films between them. I didn't really look at the time lapse.

RichardDoyle
08-25-2010, 05:18 PM
I the titles I typed weren't done for 15+ years after Rhinestone, and I'm very aware of that. I purposely chose those titles, since I feel that they're the worst of the bunch. In my eyes, Turk 182! and Loose Cannons, whether they were successful or not, are both downright terrible as well. Case in point, that is why I feel that he didn't direct anything good from Rhinestone on.

Dolly Parton has been able to have a lucractive career in entertainment, due mostly in part to her humongous tits. Sorry, but I calls 'em, like I sees 'em.

Of course these are only my opinions, I could be wrong. ;)

Whether or not they're any good, one can't really say that someone's career is dead if they're making reasonably budgeted mainstream films.

"Baby Geniuses" on the other hand seemed to really kill what was left of his career.

RichardDoyle
08-25-2010, 05:21 PM
A few films that effectively aborted film careers:

Barb Wire killed Pamela Anderson's hopes.

Fair Games killed Cindy Crawford's hopes of becoming an actress.

Venus, okay, a TV movie, killed Vanna White's.

The Oscar aborted Tony Bennett's transition.

and, Thank all that is holy, Sincerely Yours killed Liberace's film career before it ever really began.

"The Adventures of Ford Fairlane" seemed to end Andrew Dice Clay's chances of being a leading man.

"Alien from LA" killed Kathy Ireland's hopes of being a leading lady.

Jonathan H.
08-25-2010, 06:15 PM
I mean "immediately" in the sense that she made no other films between them. I didn't really look at the time lapse.

Got it. Even with that in mind, "immediately" probably isn't the best word choice.

Daniel M
08-25-2010, 06:29 PM
Regarding De Sade...AIP lost a shit-ton on this project, and as a result hacked their other big budget "prestige" project, Robert Fuest's WUTHERING HEIGHTS, to pieces just prior to its release in a misguided attempt to make it more commercial.

While still a decent film, WUTHERING HEIGHTS tanked theatrically as well. While Fuest would find a comfortable home at AIP (where he did the PHIBES films) for a couple years, some have credited the WH debacle of knocking him out of the running as a potential major league director.

RichardDoyle
08-26-2010, 05:45 PM
Got it. Even with that in mind, "immediately" probably isn't the best word choice.

I agree.

Steven Millan
08-26-2010, 07:30 PM
"The Adventures of Ford Fairlane" seemed to end Andrew Dice Clay's chances of being a leading man.




It was the Diceman's inability to brownnose Hollywood execs and his pottymouth humor(at the time) that got him blacklisted(and in numerous DTV films).

Steven Millan
08-26-2010, 07:35 PM
A few films that effectively aborted film careers:

Barb Wire killed Pamela Anderson's hopes.

Fair Games killed Cindy Crawford's hopes of becoming an actress.

Venus, okay, a TV movie, killed Vanna White's.

The Oscar aborted Tony Bennett's transition.

and, Thank all that is holy, Sincerely Yours killed Liberace's film career before it ever really began.


As far as Pam Anderson goes,her turbulent marriage to Tommy Lee,that idiotic and boring sex tape(that widely opened the doors for all other celebrity sex tapes),and her association with BAYWATCH is what knocked down her ability to move on as an actress.

And with Cindy Crawford,her association with Richard Gere dashed her acting career,and Vanna White was lucky that she had both GRADUATION DAY and GYPSY ROSES on her acting resume(before that abominable TV movie).

MatthewA
09-02-2010, 01:36 PM
Martin Brest - GIGLI

Jon Houghton
09-02-2010, 04:50 PM
not sure if it is "career killing film" but I don't understand how Monte Hellman went from a masterpiece like Two-Lane Blacktop to tripe like Silent Night Deadly Night 3: Better Watch Out. I love the fact that Bill Moseley gets picked up hitch-hiking with half his brain exposed in a glass dome.

Steven Millan
09-02-2010, 05:12 PM
Jan Michael Vincent --- DEADLY EMBRACE

It was pretty much the beginning of the end of JVM's career once he made his DTV debut(the first of many more DTV films to come)in David DeCoteau's erotic thriller(which kicked off the erotic thriller sub-genre that would dominate video store shelves in the 90s).

Thomas D.
09-02-2010, 05:38 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned what, for me, would be the best example...Ishtar! Elaine May had already established a very solid career with three very good movies (Heartbreak Kid, Mikey & Nicky, and A New Leaf, one of my all time favorites). In the intervening 23 years since Ishtar bombed, she has directed exactly nothing. Not even a crap directing gig, or some T.V. work...nada.

Jon Houghton
09-02-2010, 05:47 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned what, for me, would be the best example...Ishtar! Elaine May had already established a very solid career with three very good movies (Heartbreak Kid, Mikey & Nicky, and A New Leaf, one of my all time favorites). In the intervening 23 years since Ishtar bombed, she has directed exactly nothing. Not even a crap directing gig, or some T.V. work...nada.

never seen Ishtar and have no intention of doing so. I have not heard a single good thing about it in my entire life so I won't waste my time

Thomas D.
09-02-2010, 06:06 PM
not sure if it is "career killing film" but I don't understand how Monte Hellman went from a masterpiece like Two-Lane Blacktop to tripe like Silent Night Deadly Night 3: Better Watch Out. I love the fact that Bill Moseley gets picked up hitch-hiking with half his brain exposed in a glass dome.

Monte Hellman is sorta of a unique case, in that he never had a successful film, and often was forced to take whatever work he could get (he shot 2nd unit on Robocop for example). The Shooting, Ride in the Whirlwind, and Iguana were not even initially released in the U.S. except for a few festival screenings, although the first two did get some sort of theatrical distribution five years later on the strength of Nicholson's name. Two Lane Blacktop was intentionally buried by the studio, and only given the slimmest of theatrical releases with no paid advertising whatsoever. Cockfighter was supposedly the least successful film produced by Roger Corman up to that point, in terms of cost to profit ratio.

So while he couldn't get any directing gigs for a long time after Silent Night 3, I don't think that really had much to do with it, and it was much more the earlier track record and a bunch of other factors. He did try and get a bunch of movies off and running during this time period, but they never came to be, although he stayed busy doing odd jobs in movies. In fact, SNDN3 helped get Quentin funding for Reservoir Dogs, in a way. Monte directed SNDN3 for Live entertainment, and he later read the Reservoir Dogs script, and agreed to co-produce. He showed it to the guy that runs Live since they had a relationship, and he agreed to fund it.

Thomas D.
09-02-2010, 06:12 PM
never seen Ishtar and have no intention of doing so. I have not heard a single good thing about it in my entire life so I won't waste my time

I think it's decent and fairly humorous, but over long and needlessly big and expensive (it cost nearly $60 million!). It's basically an overblown version of the Hope/Crosby "road" movies, and can be enjoyed as such. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to anyone though.

Jon Houghton
09-02-2010, 06:13 PM
thanks for shedding some light on that for me. it's a shame the studio buried Two-Lane as it is one of the best road movies ever. I wonder what they were afraid of? either way SNDN 3 is still garbage and it seems obvious he must have only been doing it for the paycheck.

Thomas D.
09-02-2010, 06:23 PM
thanks for shedding some light on that for me. it's a shame the studio buried Two-Lane as it is one of the best road movies ever. I wonder what they were afraid of? either way SNDN 3 is still garbage and it seems obvious he must have only been doing it for the paycheck.

I'm sure he could've used the money, but Hellman went on record to say that he directed it as a favor for a friend of his. His friend was producing the film, and desperately needed a director, so he begged him to do it. Monte hated the script, but they were going to be filming soon, so he wrote a completely new one in two weeks, with the help of some other contributors. Curiously, Hellman thinks somewhat highly of the film. I really like certain bits and pieces of it, but also feel the bulk of it to be "garbage"-esque, shall we say.

Mike S.
09-03-2010, 01:28 AM
never seen Ishtar and have no intention of doing so. I have not heard a single good thing about it in my entire life so I won't waste my time

Four recent movies that aren't as funny as ISHTAR:

SCOTT PILGRIM, THE HANGOVER, DINNER FOR SCHMUCKS, HOT TUB TIME MACHINE.

Vincent Pereira
09-03-2010, 04:06 AM
LOL!

Interesting turn of phrase there Matthew!!...Sums it up quite wel!

true enough but if he had fun doing what he was doing and was getting paid decently enough for it, then I don't think he qualifies.

Vincent

Matthew BB
09-03-2010, 07:06 PM
true enough but if he had fun doing what he was doing and was getting paid decently enough for it, then I don't think he qualifies.

Vincent

Good point, but since I don't think Geoffreys appeared in any non-porn once he crossed over (and just a couple of years prior to that he was in some high-profile titles), you have to wonder if he continued to have mainstream aspirations and they were killed.

Daniel M
09-03-2010, 08:59 PM
MatthewA - At the rate Martin Brest makes 'em, perhaps he's just taking a post- GIGLI breather. After all, dude's anything but prolific - the JLo bomb was only the 9th film he's directed in 38 years.

Jason Lee
09-04-2010, 07:47 AM
Good point, but since I don't think Geoffreys appeared in any non-porn once he crossed over (and just a couple of years prior to that he was in some high-profile titles), you have to wonder if he continued to have mainstream aspirations and they were killed.

He DID have a choice though!!LOL!

He WAS in some high profile titles and got good reviews for his roles....then he leapt into gay porn when his career was still pretty good..so dEFINITELY a choice made there...pleasure over profit and Hollywood!

He's been back in some movies recently(Sick Girl I think he is in for one)...so cant say he had a CAREER KILLING FILM....rather he belongs in the thread called CAREER SUICIDE MOVIES :D

Matthew BB
09-04-2010, 09:50 AM
He DID have a choice though!!....rather he belongs in the thread called CAREER SUICIDE MOVIES :D

You may be on to something with that, haha :p.

I honestly just learned about his post-976 EVIL career within the last year. He's definitely one of the more unique cases.

Ehren H.
09-04-2010, 02:04 PM
Ishtar is pretty funny, and not as bad as suggested. It was so overbudget for the time that many critics were waiting for it to bomb. It didn't really hurt Beatty or Hoffman, but it definitely hurt the director. Which is sad, because it's a funny movie. Favorite line: "You mean they're here on spec?"

Comedies shouldn't cost that much. Evan Almighty lost A LOT OF MONEY (I think it was the most expensive comedy ever, but I'm not positive on that), so that one defines "bomb" but definitely didn't hurt Carrell or Freeman.

James Kyle
10-14-2010, 11:35 PM
"The Warriors' opened a lot of doors in film, for me, which 'Xanadu' then closed."
Michael Beck

Quite an apt thing to say.

Steve Greenfield
10-15-2010, 12:10 AM
The Clones of John Saxon! I'd see that!

I haven't tthought John Saxon in years! Is he still alive? An actor that appeared in all those television movies and chea[p sci-fi flicks. He gets no respect. I doubt you could come across anybody in Hollywood that would know him. When he finally does pass away, only we here will mourn him.

Steven Millan
10-15-2010, 02:34 AM
I haven't tthought John Saxon in years! Is he still alive? An actor that appeared in all those television movies and chea[p sci-fi flicks. He gets no respect. I doubt you could come across anybody in Hollywood that would know him. When he finally does pass away, only we here will mourn him.


After a long absence from the screen,John Saxon has returned to prove he's alive and well,for TRAPPED ASHES and WAR WOLVES were his most recent films and he'll be at this weekend's Creation Weekend Of Horrors.

Marshall Crist
10-15-2010, 02:38 AM
"The Warriors' opened a lot of doors in film, for me, which 'Xanadu' then closed."
Michael Beck

Quite an apt thing to say.

30th Anniversary screening of XANADU in Glendale, CA tomorrow night. Many supporting cast members in attendance.

Steven Millan
10-15-2010, 02:48 AM
DYING TO GET RICH(a.k.a.:SUSAN'S PLAN)is an extremely horrible film that majorly killed off plenty of careers,with the likes of director John Landis,and stars Nastassja Kinski,Dan Ackroyd,Rob Schneider,and Michael Biehn(amongst those actors/actresses in that very film) having paid the heavy price,career-wise.

Nick Schwartz
10-15-2010, 09:46 AM
Venus, okay, a TV movie, killed Vanna White's.

It didn't help that the TV movie had Marcy D'Arcy as the third person in a love triangle. And that's the only thing I remember about it.

Troy Howarth
10-15-2010, 09:47 AM
I haven't tthought John Saxon in years! Is he still alive? An actor that appeared in all those television movies and chea[p sci-fi flicks. He gets no respect. I doubt you could come across anybody in Hollywood that would know him. When he finally does pass away, only we here will mourn him.

I interviewed him for my book on Mario Bava. He's a very nice man, down to earth and possessing no pretensions about his career. Damn good actor, very underrated.

Troy Howarth
10-15-2010, 09:49 AM
DYING TO GET RICH(a.k.a.:SUSAN'S PLAN)is an extremely horrible film that majorly killed off plenty of careers,with the likes of director John Landis,and stars Nastassja Kinski,Dan Ackroyd,Rob Schneider,and Michael Biehn(amongst those actors/actresses in that very film) having paid the heavy price,career-wise.

I like Landis, but I never even HEARD of this one! Truthfully, he's made some other duds - Blues Brothers 2000, anyone? - but his career never rebounded from The Twilight Zone, arguably.

Jonathan H.
10-15-2010, 10:29 AM
"The Warriors' opened a lot of doors in film, for me, which 'Xanadu' then closed."
Michael Beck
Quite an apt thing to say.

I actually found this quote in a book of actor profiles nearly 15 years ago and posted it to Beck's IMDb page. Since then, I've seen this quote appear on other websites. Cool to see that people are still finding it.

Now, I wish I could find that damn book! I was in my university bookstore and must have browsed it for an hour or so, but didn't have the dough to buy it then. It had actor profiles, head shots, and quotes like the one above. The fact that it had "secondary players" like Beck really impressed me. IIRC, it may have had agent contact information so it was more of an industry reference book. Off topic ramble, I know, but needless to say, this is one of those "I wish I'd bought the damn thing!" moments. Does such a book sound familiar to anyone?

Christoffer S
10-15-2010, 04:20 PM
DYING TO GET RICH(a.k.a.:SUSAN'S PLAN)is an extremely horrible film that majorly killed off plenty of careers,with the likes of director John Landis,and stars Nastassja Kinski,Dan Ackroyd,Rob Schneider,and Michael Biehn(amongst those actors/actresses in that very film) having paid the heavy price,career-wise.

I think most of their careers were dead even before this one, which I recall being pretty mediocre but certainly not awful.

Terry Carpenter
10-15-2010, 04:25 PM
but his career never rebounded from The Twilight Zone, arguably.

Coming to America was a success, it also was nominated for two Academy Awards. I'd say after that his career went downhill...

John G.
10-15-2010, 04:36 PM
I haven't tthought John Saxon in years! Is he still alive? An actor that appeared in all those television movies and chea[p sci-fi flicks. He gets no respect. I doubt you could come across anybody in Hollywood that would know him. When he finally does pass away, only we here will mourn him.
Actually, you may get small headline referring to him as "ENTER THE DRAGON STAR" and then a tiny blurb in the newspaper about his passing. I would say this film is perhaps his most mainstream, and it's a well-enough known title to merit some attention in the unfortunate event of his passing.

Guillaume P
10-15-2010, 05:06 PM
I like Landis, but I never even HEARD of this one! Truthfully, he's made some other duds - Blues Brothers 2000, anyone? - but his career never rebounded from The Twilight Zone, arguably.

"Blues Brothers 2000' is probably Landis's nadir with "Beverley Hills cop 3" (ok,i haven't seen his comedy with Sly...) but the new Landis movie ("Burke and Hare") seems promising!

I don't think that "Susan's plan" is as bad as many people seem to think,it's minor Landis yeah but it is still decent and fun,especially for the great casting (also starring Adrian Paul,the tv "Higlander",yeah!:D)
I think that "Innocent blood" is underrated,one of my fav Landis movies with "An american werewolf in London","Shlock" and "Kentucky/Amazon women on the moon"!

RichardDoyle
10-15-2010, 05:57 PM
Coming to America was a success, it also was nominated for two Academy Awards. I'd say after that his career went downhill...

Yes. "Oscar" seems to be the beginning of his serious career free-fall.

Troy Howarth
10-15-2010, 08:36 PM
Holy cow.... I forgot he made Oscar. He HAS had some awful films. I'm looking forward to his return to comedic horror with Burke and Hare. It's got a great cast: Tom Wilkinson, Andy Serkis, Simon Pegg, Christopher Lee, John Woodvine, etc.

Troy Howarth
10-15-2010, 08:37 PM
"Blues Brothers 2000' is probably Landis's nadir with "Beverley Hills cop 3" (ok,i haven't seen his comedy with Sly...) but the new Landis movie ("Burke and Hare") seems promising!

I don't think that "Susan's plan" is as bad as many people seem to think,it's minor Landis yeah but it is still decent and fun,especially for the great casting (also starring Adrian Paul,the tv "Higlander",yeah!:D)
I think that "Innocent blood" is underrated,one of my fav Landis movies with "An american werewolf in London","Shlock" and "Kentucky/Amazon women on the moon"!

I like Innocent Blood a lot. I avoided it for years, having heard pretty much nothing but middling-to-bad things, but I ended up liking it. It's sexy, funny and very stylish.

Daniel M
10-15-2010, 11:00 PM
And the career free-fall has been more self-induced than a backlash over what happened on THE TWILIGHT ZONE. His was career was very healthy in the wake of the trial, thanks to things like SPIES LIKE US, THREE AMIGOS, and COMING TO AMERICA.

Looking at the 90s, I'm quite fond of INNOCENT BLOOD but realize I'm in the minority...

Troy Howarth
10-15-2010, 11:01 PM
In any event, I thought his Masters of Horror episodes found him in far better form than most of his recent theatrical films; I'm hoping they're an indicator of things to come.

Daniel M
10-15-2010, 11:21 PM
^ Unlike many of his contemporaries, he seemed to flourish under the constraints of delivering a one-hour film within the constraints of MoH. I would LOVE to see him deliver a feature of the same content/quality.

Guillaume P
10-16-2010, 05:26 AM
I like Innocent Blood a lot. I avoided it for years, having heard pretty much nothing but middling-to-bad things, but I ended up liking it. It's sexy, funny and very stylish.

i totally agree...Anne Parillaud's performance in it is really charming...too bad that she wasn't proud of this underrated film for many years...Landis himself doesn't seem to like very much his own film,like he suggested last year at his Paris tribute.
Is the R1 dvd (All Regions dvd??) worth the price??...i've read that it was full screen or something like this but i'm tempted to buy it.

Troy Howarth
10-16-2010, 03:14 PM
The US disc (not sure if it's region free) is full frame but watchable. I'd love to see a remastered version, hopefully with a Landis interview.

Thomas D.
10-16-2010, 03:43 PM
Blues Brothers 2000 may have been the final nail for Landis (in terms of getting big funding) after earlier failures (Oscar, Beverly Hills Cop III). According to IMDB, it cost $28 million and grossed $14 mill stateside, which is not "career killing" in Hollywood studio terms, but looks bad when put in context with his films from the previous decade or so. I also really like Innocent Blood, but Oscar, Bev Hills Cop 3, and BB2000 are fucking terrible (I haven't seen The Stupids). So, my point is that his "Hollywood studio" career died, but it seems to have been from cumilative effect and not a single financial disaster. I'm glad to see him returning to genre fare. I wasn't exactly blown away from the Masters of Horror stuff, but Burke and Hare could be interesting.

Troy Howarth
10-16-2010, 04:24 PM
Wasn't North by Rob Reiner? I'm thinking that was HIS career killing film. I tried to watch The Stupids because Christopher Lee was in it... but it was just too, well, stupid.

Jonathan H.
10-16-2010, 04:24 PM
Blues Brothers 2000 may have been the final nail for Landis (in terms of getting big funding) after earlier failures (North, Beverly Hills Cop III). According to IMDB, it cost $28 million and grossed $14 mill stateside, which is not "career killing" in Hollywood studio terms, but looks bad when put in context with his films from the previous decade or so. I also really like Innocent Blood, but North, Bev Hills Cop 3, and BB2000 are fucking terrible (I haven't seen The Stupids). So, my point is that his "Hollywood studio" career died, but it seems to have been from cumilative effect and not a single financial disaster. I'm glad to see him returning to genre fare. I wasn't exactly blown away from the Masters of Horror stuff, but Burke and Hare could be interesting.

Ah, didn't Rob Reiner direct NORTH?

Thomas D.
10-16-2010, 04:31 PM
Ah, didn't Rob Reiner direct NORTH?

Sorry, I meant Oscar, with Sly :P I read North from the earlier comment and got them mixed up.

Troy Howarth
10-16-2010, 04:31 PM
Hmm... now which one is worse - I've never seen either of them! :D

Thomas D.
10-16-2010, 04:41 PM
Hmm... now which one is worse - I've never seen either of them! :D

To be fair, I remember chuckling once or twice during Oscar, but North is worse, cloying with a ridiculous premise and characters. Sly doesn't do too badly with the screwball dialogue delivery (better than you would expect), but the script just isn't very funny. There's a lot of "he stole Mr. Lasagna's canoli! Drown him in the Hudson!" type mafia "humor" (although that's probably funnier than what's actually in the film).

Troy Howarth
10-16-2010, 04:42 PM
Given a choice, I would much rather see Oscar... I don't mind Sly, and I do think Landis can be a wonderful director when he's "on." I like some of Reiner's movies, but North just never drew me... clearly I wasn't alone in this!

Thomas D.
10-16-2010, 04:53 PM
Given a choice, I would much rather see Oscar... I don't mind Sly, and I do think Landis can be a wonderful director when he's "on." I like some of Reiner's movies, but North just never drew me... clearly I wasn't alone in this!

I agree about Landis. I even really really like Schlock and Coming to America, on top of the obvious. I think he can be one of the greats in terms of directing comedy, maybe akin to a Billy Wilder, but his career derailed it seems. He's also demonstrated some impressive skill with more "dynamic" cinematic material (car chases in Blues Brothers, flashbacks in American Werewolf, etc.). He's also a hell of a personable guy and a true genre fan, so I hope he gets to making quality films again.

Kamyar
10-16-2010, 08:30 PM
i totally agree...Anne Parillaud's performance in it is really charming...too bad that she wasn't proud of this underrated film for many years...Landis himself doesn't seem to like very much his own film,like he suggested last year at his Paris tribute.
Is the R1 dvd (All Regions dvd??) worth the price??...i've read that it was full screen or something like this but i'm tempted to buy it.
If you can find it, buy the German DVD. It's Widescreen, has english audio and includes the longest version worldwide, not only Unrated but also adding three dialogue scences you'll find nowhere else. I've got no idea why we got that version from Warner Bros., but I ain't complaining. It's also got the original Theatrical Poster as the cover art, which is pretty awesome.

Guillaume P
10-17-2010, 12:48 PM
If you can find it, buy the German DVD.

thanks for the info Kamyar!
Are there english subtitles on the german dvd or not??

Kamyar
10-17-2010, 03:18 PM
thanks for the info Kamyar!
Are there english subtitles on the german dvd or not??

None. I think the RC1 DVD has no subtitles as well, as far as I know.

BUT I found out that the Australian R4 DVD not only has the same Widescreen Unrated cut, but also English Subtitles as well. :)

http://www.dvdcompare.net/comparisons/film.php?fid=4255

I've found out the reason why it's longer, because it's based on the version that was used for the American Laserdisc, that's why it includes additional gore, nudity and dialogue.