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Wayne Schmidt
06-24-2010, 10:28 PM
A friend of mine pointed this out and I'd thought I'd pass it along. I'm not a fan but I know a lot of people have been looking for a good copy of this (actually, I'd like to see it again and see if I like it any better). The running time is around 108 minutes.

I also know squat about ITunes and how it works (at least with movies), so you're on your own there. But here's some screen grabs, and the transfer looks pretty nice.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/drsd2kill/DEVILS/DEVILS00001.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/drsd2kill/DEVILS/DEVILS00002.jpg

Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere. I looked and couldn't find it.

Derrick King
06-24-2010, 10:57 PM
I think Warner Brothers has already taken this off iTunes

Aleck Bennett
06-24-2010, 11:01 PM
Yep, it's gone. Got it before it vamoosed, though. :)

BrentLeeW
06-24-2010, 11:10 PM
Yes It has been taken down. It was only up for 3 days. I was thinking of picking up an itunes card this weekend and downloading this. Of course I also went to camp out t my wal mart last night to finally get an iphone and there were already 3 guys there. Guess how many they recieved. They received 3 of the freaking things

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/movies/the_devils_headed_for_lincoln_center_0fGcAk2YU4bhs Oq3Sup4GN

http://www.blackbookmag.com/article/whos-afraid-of-ken-russells-the-devils/20025

Matthew BB
06-24-2010, 11:11 PM
Around 108 minutes? That sounds like it's right between cut and uncut. I could be taking that too literally, but I've never heard of any version with that time.


Yep, it's gone. Got it before it vamoosed, though. :)

Have you seen it before? I envy the hell out of anyone who is watching it for the first time. If you aren't, you know what I mean.

Wayne Schmidt
06-24-2010, 11:15 PM
Yep, it's gone. Got it before it vamoosed, though. :)Ah well, I tried. :o

So when you say you "got it" before they pulled it what kind of file do you end up with from ITunes? What's the quality like? Is it on par with a dvd? Is it burnable or protected? (See, told you I didn't know shit about DL'ing from ITunes!)

paul h.
06-24-2010, 11:16 PM
Thanks for posting.


and Dammit.

AnthonyT
06-25-2010, 03:34 AM
thats unfortunate. i wish i could have had the chance to d/l it..

Aleck Bennett
06-25-2010, 04:01 AM
Ah well, I tried. :o

So when you say you "got it" before they pulled it what kind of file do you end up with from ITunes? What's the quality like? Is it on par with a dvd? Is it burnable or protected? (See, told you I didn't know shit about DL'ing from ITunes!)

It's a 1.36GB video file, .m4v extension (basically a protected .mp4 file). The file's anamorphically-enhanced widescreen, with a pixel ratio of 845x364. It's not nearly on the level of DVD quality; it's about on par with a fairly good quality .avi file of the same size. Compressed, but not nearly as badly as I've seen. Not burnable right out of the box, unfortunately; it's DRM-protected. You *could* theoretically convert the file to an unprotected .mp4 (or .avi, or what-have-you) and burn that to disc if you had the right software, but that would be violating the DMCA and I'd hate to advocate that kind of illicit activity.

Aleck Bennett
06-25-2010, 04:10 AM
Around 108 minutes? That sounds like it's right between cut and uncut. I could be taking that too literally, but I've never heard of any version with that time.



Have you seen it before? I envy the hell out of anyone who is watching it for the first time. If you aren't, you know what I mean.

It's a weird-as-hell running time, that's for sure. I'm currently trying to get the damned thing to work somewhere besides my computer (no luck thus far), so I've only spot-checked it via iTunes. Frustrating. I have seen it, but only 2-3 times via the censored US cut, and it's been too long since that last viewing.

Derrick King
06-25-2010, 05:12 AM
One could always hope that Criterion is able to license this film from Warner Brothers (word is that the year and a half old rumor of a Criterion/Warner Bros deal may be kind of true, in that there is no deal for a set amount of titles, but Criterion is actively negotiating with them on a title by title basis.) But, given the hate that WB management has for this film, I doubt that they'd even license it out.

Don May Jr
06-25-2010, 07:05 AM
Around two years or so ago, I went to Warner and asked if Synapse could sublicense THE DEVILS. I was told that (paraphrasing)... Warner doesn't sublicense their titles to outside companies and likes to keep everything "in house".

That was, of course, two years ago... wonder if I should talk to them again?

Fred Anderson
06-25-2010, 07:07 AM
Don: Do it, talk with them again!

AdamAskov
06-25-2010, 07:13 AM
Do it Don! Do it!

Troy Howarth
06-25-2010, 08:27 AM
Give it a try, Don. For whatever reason, they don't want to be bothered with this film. Even though Ken Russell has repeatedly said that he'd love to do a commentary for this film and see it put out remastered and uncut, they just don't seem interested. It makes absolutely no sense. Love the film or hate it - it should be permitted to hit DVD and BR like any other title. It fully deserves a SE and every effort should be made to involve Russell while he is still able to do so.

Richard C
06-25-2010, 09:06 AM
I've only got this on VHS but haven't got round to watching it as I've been (foolishly?) waiting for a decent release. No harm in asking Don I guess...

AdamAskov
06-25-2010, 10:38 AM
Give it a try, Don. For whatever reason, they don't want to be bothered with this film. Even though Ken Russell has repeatedly said that he'd love to do a commentary for this film and see it put out remastered and uncut, they just don't seem interested. It makes absolutely no sense. Love the film or hate it - it should be permitted to hit DVD and BR like any other title. It fully deserves a SE and every effort should be made to involve Russell while he is still able to do so.

Yes. Someone should make a commentary and an in depth interview with Russell before his memories are gone forever.

Jonathan H.
06-25-2010, 01:05 PM
Yes. Someone should make a commentary and an in depth interview with Russell before his memories are gone forever.

It's been said that Russell already has recorded a commentary for THE DEVILS. If you recall, the film was even announced for DVD by several retailers a few years back with very official-looking cover art--the same art, in fact, that adorned the iTunes listing for the film.

Derrick King
06-25-2010, 02:00 PM
Regarding Warner's licensing stuff out, I completely forgot that Warner confirmed it last year during the HTF chat:

[Tor_Hestad] Any truth to the rumours regarding a licensing deal with Criterion? If true, could you elaborate, and are they/you releasing SEs of Zabriskie Point and/or Badlands? Thanks for making the WBArchive titles available worldwide!

[warnerbros] Since it was 'leaked' through the internet, we have had discussion with Criterion regarding a limited group of titles at the behest of their respective directors. ZABRISKIE POINT is being released by WHV as part of our Director's Showcase at the end of May. It's a gorgeous new anamorphic transfer.

Don it might be worth asking again.

DJ Greene
06-25-2010, 02:02 PM
wow, i'd really like to see this film!

RichardDoyle
06-25-2010, 02:38 PM
What I've heard is that Alan Horn:

http://www.timewarner.com/corp/management/executives_by_business/warner_bros/bio/horn_alan.html

Hates "The Devils" because of it's content and does not want it released.

Edit:

If anyone really wants to see it uncut, but the DVD from Eurocult. It's not superb quality, but it is uncut and I am satisfied with it.

AnthonyT
06-25-2010, 04:52 PM
Give it a try, Don. For whatever reason, they don't want to be bothered with this film. Even though Ken Russell has repeatedly said that he'd love to do a commentary for this film and see it put out remastered and uncut, they just don't seem interested. It makes absolutely no sense. Love the film or hate it - it should be permitted to hit DVD and BR like any other title. It fully deserves a SE and every effort should be made to involve Russell while he is still able to do so.


I had read somewhere that Russell already prepared a commentary thinking Warner was set to release it. I also read there is a Ken Russell retrospective going on that is showing it in theaters for 4 nights that Russell is attending all screenings. (I could have been imagining this though)

http://robertcashill.blogspot.com/2010/06/downloading-devils.html

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/93867/the-devils

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2010/06/devils_on_my_ph.php

The last image shows the iTunes screenshot. Whats weird is that is the cover that was reportedly being used for Warner's release back when, and it was thought to be a hoax or forgery of some kind. But regardless of this, people were obviously able to download it - the question I guess is whether Warner posted it on iTunes or if someone else put it there.

http://videowatchdog.blogspot.com/2008/02/devils-hoax-and-la-bava-retro-in-march.html

James Flower
06-25-2010, 06:43 PM
I had read somewhere that Russell already prepared a commentary thinking Warner was set to release it. I also read there is a Ken Russell retrospective going on that is showing it in theaters for 4 nights that Russell is attending all screenings. (I could have been imagining this though

If it's true, I wonder if he'll cause as much mayhem as he did at the Samuel Goldwyn's screening of Tommy not too long ago...

http://sergioleoneifr.blogspot.com/2010/05/i-dont-discuss-my-filmsan-interview.html

Troy Howarth
06-25-2010, 10:46 PM
I've only got this on VHS but haven't got round to watching it as I've been (foolishly?) waiting for a decent release. No harm in asking Don I guess...

No point in waiting, really... it's a remarkable film and it deserves to be seen in any incarnation. There was a Luminous bootleg which presented the longest available cut of the film as well as a great documentary about the film and its complicated history. Not ideal, but it was most welcome for what it was.

Rich K
06-26-2010, 01:06 AM
Bought the Devils on Sunday and was shocked to see it vanish from Itunes on Monday. It runs just seconds over 108 minutes. Watched the film a couple nights ago on the macbook while our power was out. Seemed as good a time
as any to check this out. I found the quality really good, correct aspect ratio, vivid color and detail. This looks like the original US X rated theatrical cut from 70 or 71 before it was trimmed for an R but my background knowledge of this is slight since it was never one of my favorite films

AdamAskov
06-26-2010, 08:40 AM
No point in waiting, really... it's a remarkable film and it deserves to be seen in any incarnation. There was a Luminous bootleg which presented the longest available cut of the film as well as a great documentary about the film and its complicated history. Not ideal, but it was most welcome for what it was.

This one? http://cgi.ebay.com/DEVILS-1971-Ken-Russell-Oliver-Reed-NEW-DVD-UNCUT-/120521038528?cmd=ViewItem&pt=US_DVD_HD_DVD_Blu_ray&hash=item1c0f9d1ac0#ht_3836wt_930

Troy Howarth
06-26-2010, 02:56 PM
Yep, that's the one. Don't let the anamorphic widescreen lable fool you, though - while the disc is anamorpic, it's letterboxed at 1.85 - and it's really a 2.35 film. Still, it's the best game in town.

Marc Edward Heuck
06-27-2010, 12:45 AM
This looks like the original US X rated theatrical cut from 70 or 71 before it was trimmed for an R but my background knowledge of this is slight since it was never one of my favorite films

You're correct. Around 1981 WB resubmitted the original 108 minute X cut to the MPAA and it was rerated R, and that's what's been available in the U.S. ever since.

I just wrote about THE DEVILS and the iTunes fracas at my blog:

http://projectorhasbeendrinking.blogspot.com/2010/06/satans-boy-i-could-never-be-i-havent.html

Eric B
06-27-2010, 12:54 AM
Marc Edward Heuck I love your blog.

Thank you. Ken Russell is the best-paid out-of-work director EVER.

I seriously can't believe Mr. Russell. Even Abraham Lincoln wouldn't deny him a job.

AnthonyT
06-27-2010, 01:28 AM
This one? http://cgi.ebay.com/DEVILS-1971-Ken-Russell-Oliver-Reed-NEW-DVD-UNCUT-/120521038528?cmd=ViewItem&pt=US_DVD_HD_DVD_Blu_ray&hash=item1c0f9d1ac0#ht_3836wt_930

Although it is complete and also features the full documentary as well, but reviews on Amazon for that edition are atrocious to the point of virtually unwatchable as the aspect ratio and quality changes throughout.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000SEFWL0?tag=raroopdvds-20&camp=213381&creative=390973&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=B000SEFWL0&adid=12VGHTC3HVP49M0BT77W&

Eric B
06-27-2010, 02:28 AM
Any port in a storm. That said, I don't have THE DEVILS in any form. I watched it a bunch of times during a few years period 20 years ago.

I keep hoping that WB will put it out legit.

Like BATMAN I wonder if THE DEVILS will ever see the light of day.

AdamAskov
06-27-2010, 06:27 AM
Although it is complete and also features the full documentary as well, but reviews on Amazon for that edition are atrocious to the point of virtually unwatchable as the aspect ratio and quality changes throughout.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000SEFWL0?tag=raroopdvds-20&camp=213381&creative=390973&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=B000SEFWL0&adid=12VGHTC3HVP49M0BT77W&

Yeah it really doesn't sound too good. I might just have to wait for my local cinemateque to screen it.

Troy Howarth
06-27-2010, 02:59 PM
The DVD is hardly unwatchable - I guess some people who are ultra sensitive to anything that is remotely imperfect in this technology-oriented age might find it so, but here's the deal: the film is not available legitimately and it's not due to be made available any time soon... if you want to see it, snag that bastard up!

Lars Andersen
06-27-2010, 03:13 PM
The DVD is hardly unwatchable - I guess some people who are ultra sensitive to anything that is remotely imperfect in this technology-oriented age might find it so, but here's the deal: the film is not available legitimately and it's not due to be made available any time soon... if you want to see it, snag that bastard up!

I just want my first time watching it to be something special. Then I might buy the bootleg dvd afterwards. :p (ADAM ASKOV)

Rich K
06-27-2010, 04:09 PM
You're correct. Around 1981 WB resubmitted the original 108 minute X cut to the MPAA and it was rerated R, and that's what's been available in the U.S. ever since.

I just wrote about THE DEVILS and the iTunes fracas at my blog:

http://projectorhasbeendrinking.blogspot.com/2010/06/satans-boy-i-could-never-be-i-havent.html

Excellent blog and article on Russell and the Devils. Thanks!

Wayne Schmidt
06-27-2010, 05:08 PM
The DVD is hardly unwatchable - I guess some people who are ultra sensitive to anything that is remotely imperfect in this technology-oriented age might find it so, but here's the deal: the film is not available legitimately and it's not due to be made available any time soon... if you want to see it, snag that bastard up!I haven't seen it surface yet, but after Aleck's description of what you get from an ITunes download I'd imagine someone who snagged it during it's brief availability will upload to a torrent site before too long, and quality should look closer to a professional current transfer. Needless to say that's just another Illegitimate way of procuring it, and I'm not advocating piracy . . . . of course. ;)

Troy Howarth
06-27-2010, 07:40 PM
I'm not either, but... in this instance the powers that be are being idiotic about releasing the film - so if a bootleg does well and earns somebody else some money, they can't really carp too much about that.

Wayne Schmidt
06-27-2010, 08:10 PM
Most people who either buy the boot or D/L it I'm sure would be happy to put some coinage in Warner's pockets if they'd ever deem to put it out (especially uncut) so I don't see the harm (as I don't with most rare/fringe films that aren't available commercially).

Troy Howarth
06-27-2010, 08:18 PM
Agreed. I have the DVD and it's by no means ideal, but it's the best option out there right now... if WB puts out a proper edition (with or without supplements, though I'm hoping they'd do it right), I'd surely buy it.

And I like the new avatar, Wayne!

Wayne Schmidt
06-27-2010, 09:07 PM
And I like the new avatar, Wayne!Thanks! :) I figured it would get an appreciative nod from you and Chris! :D

Troy Howarth
06-27-2010, 10:03 PM
It's from AD 1972, I take it? Yep, I like it a lot - not that that is a shock!

Terry Carpenter
06-27-2010, 10:09 PM
I wasn't too sure based a few of the comments. Troy. But now based on your recommendation I'm probably going to snag that up.


Edit: The DVD is listed at 111 mins and under the IMDB page it has a listed 117 min (restored version) from the UK, what's up with that?

Troy Howarth
06-27-2010, 10:11 PM
Don't expect perfection, but like I said: it offers a partially widescreen edition (a couple of scenes cut back in are full 2.35, so that's what the one post was alluding to) and it's as complete as we're ever likely to see it. The documentary is also truly fascinating and worth watching. It'll do until a proper release is finally issued.

Ian Jane
06-27-2010, 10:39 PM
The bootleg is okay.... for a bootleg... if you can get it cheap. It's horribly compresed and it looks, not surprisingly, like a bootleg. I've got it and am glad to own it until a legit version comes out. The documentary it comes with is pretty bad ass and the film is incredibly powerful in its uncut form.

Matthew BB
06-28-2010, 01:14 AM
SPOILER?

My favorite extra on the bootleg is the bit where Mark Kermode gathers a few people and shows the long lost "Rape of Christ" footage at Ken Russell's home. I'll go so far as to say that Russell comes off as quite lovable. He gasps throughout and says stuff like "Oh, this is obscene."

I may be getting ahead of myself simply by wishing, but fingers crossed that all of those excellent special features ultimately turn up on a legitimate uncut dvd.

Troy Howarth
06-28-2010, 08:17 AM
Then he says something like, "I really don't know why that was cut. Except it's about the most mind-blowing piece of film you'll ever see." :D

RichardDoyle
06-28-2010, 05:42 PM
The DVD is hardly unwatchable - I guess some people who are ultra sensitive to anything that is remotely imperfect in this technology-oriented age might find it so, but here's the deal: the film is not available legitimately and it's not due to be made available any time soon... if you want to see it, snag that bastard up!

Yeah, I would second this. I own a copy and it's really not a terrible DVD. I originally saw the film on VHS and this copy is better. It's worth buying.

Sean B
06-28-2010, 06:22 PM
GOD! If this really is playing Fantasia this year.....it'll be the first ticket purchased. Along with TOMMY.....

I have a bootleg...not sure what's on the disc....but I'll wait until I know for sure if this is going to play at this year's Fantasia. Seeing this on the big screen should be an unforgettable experience for this noob.

Troy Howarth
06-28-2010, 06:46 PM
Yeah, if you want a really bad viewing experience, skip the DVD and go for the panned and scanned, censored VHS edition.

John G.
06-29-2010, 10:10 AM
Still no DVD of THE MUSIC LOVERS, SAVAGE MESSIAH and WHORE, among others. MAHLER is hopelessly OOP, as is SALOME'S LAST DANCE. Russell is criminally neglected on DVD.

Richard Owen
06-29-2010, 10:40 AM
According to Mark Kermode's autobiography the restored director's cut of The Devils has been given the all clear by the BBFC but Warners US put the kibosh on it's release. It was, however, screened at the National Film Theatre in London in 2004.

Erik F.
06-29-2010, 11:59 AM
Ordered the bootleg. I hadn't even heard about this film before entering the thread, but it sounds really intriguing. Don't think I've ever seen anything by Ken Russell actually, despite almost buying Altered States several times.

John G.
06-29-2010, 01:35 PM
You should give ALTERED STATES a look as well... it's one of his best films.

Troy Howarth
06-29-2010, 06:40 PM
I'm really not that big on Russell, but The Devils and Women in Love are two of my favorite films. I also like Lair of the White Worm and Crimes of Passion to a lesser degree. I'd like to see Mahler. Altered States pretty much bored me.

AnthonyT
06-29-2010, 07:46 PM
I'm really not that big on Russell, but The Devils and Women in Love are two of my favorite films. I also like Lair of the White Worm and Crimes of Passion to a lesser degree. I'd like to see Mahler. Altered States pretty much bored me.

I liked Altered States, although it did get bizarre. But some of my bias is based on the fact that it is loosely based on the work of John Lilly (someone I have utmost respect for) who pioneered the sensory deprivation tank and would take LSD while going in there. Many of his works are published in such books as TANKS FOR THE MEMORIES, THE DEEP SELF, CENTER OF THE CYCLONE and PROGRAMMING AND METAPROGRAMMING THE HUMAN BIOCOMPUTER. Before trying every known drug out there, somewhat short of William Burroughs experiences, he was a pioneer in dolphin communication.

Outside of that, MAHLER is an interesting little film. THE DEVILS I have seen once on VHS and it is a bizarre recollection at best, definitely needs a rewatch on my part. I have once seen DANTE'S INFERNO, which at the time I did not get as it had nothing to do with what I expected. Not sure it would be much better today. LAIR OF THE WHITE WORM, started out very good but seemed to spiral out somewhere else. I never saw CRIMES OF PASSION or ARIA, which I hear is very good. A lot of Russell's works seem to be inspired by real life people and events with an emphasis on music. I remember enjoying GOTHIC. Oh! and I always like TOMMY. Even as a kid growing up seeing it on HBO I found it a freakish acid trip that was scary and exciting at the same time. Not understanding what the heck was happening was part of the fun. But the scene with the Acid Queen (Tina Turner) and Roger Daultry rolling in what looked like lots and lots of beans seem to have stood out for me, visually speaking.

Steve R
06-29-2010, 08:07 PM
Anthony, I'd give much of the credit for Altered States story to the man who wrote the novel it was based on and the screenplay, Paddy Chayefsky . He wrote a few things, each of them well worth anyone's consideration.

I saw The Devils on screen as a double bill with Liztomania. While there was much to like in the Devils, about half way through the second feature I thought this man is truly mad.

AnthonyT
06-29-2010, 08:30 PM
Anthony, I'd give much of the credit for Altered States story to the man who wrote the novel it was based on and the screenplay, Paddy Chayefsky . He wrote a few things, each of them well worth anyone's consideration.

I saw The Devils on screen as a double bill with Liztomania. While there was much to like in the Devils, about half way through the second feature I thought this man is truly mad.

I do understand ALTERED STATES follows the book closely and thats where the source material from the movie comes from. Chayevsky wrote the script to one of my favorite films NETWORK. But according to Wikipedia, it states:


Both the novel and the film are based on John C. Lilly's sensory deprivation research conducted in isolation tanks under the influence of psychoactive drugs like ketamine and LSD

As quoted from John Lilly:


John C. Lilly liked the film, and noted the following in an Omni magazine interview published in January 1983:

The scene in which the scientist becomes cosmic energy and his wife grabs him and brings him back to human form is straight out of my Dyadic Cyclone (1976)...As for the scientist's regression into an ape-like being, the late Dr. Craig Enright, who started me on K (ketamine) while taking a trip with me here by the isolation tank, suddenly "became" a chimp, jumping up and down and hollering for twenty-five minutes. Watching him, I was frightened. I asked him later, "Where the hell were you?" He said, "I became a pre-hominid, and I was in a tree. A leopard was trying to get me. So I was trying to scare him away." The manuscript of The Scientist (1978) was in the hands of Bantam, the publishers. The head of Bantam called and said, "Paddy Chayefsky would like to read your manuscript. Will you give him your permission? I said, "Only if he calls me and asks permission." He didn't call. But he probably read the manuscript.

Troy Howarth
06-29-2010, 10:02 PM
If I remember correctly, Russell and Chayevsky didn't get along at all - and I suspect Russell changed some of the script but was prevented from going all out the way he wanted to.

Troy Howarth
06-29-2010, 10:03 PM
Anthony, I'd give much of the credit for Altered States story to the man who wrote the novel it was based on and the screenplay, Paddy Chayefsky . He wrote a few things, each of them well worth anyone's consideration.

I saw The Devils on screen as a double bill with Liztomania. While there was much to like in the Devils, about half way through the second feature I thought this man is truly mad.

I don't know about mad... eccentric, for sure. He loves to provoke, and I think The Devils is where his habit of really going for the jugular became set in stone. If it's any compensation, I think a lot of what he does is meant to be amusing.

John G.
06-30-2010, 12:18 AM
If I remember correctly, Russell and Chayevsky didn't get along at all - and I suspect Russell changed some of the script but was prevented from going all out the way he wanted to.
Russell agreed to the project if he could have complete artistic control of the hallucination scenes. Chayevsky, meanwhile, had a reputation of cutting out many lines of dialogue from films that he was involved in. However, Russell shot in very long takes, effectively making it impossible for Chayevsky to tamper with the film. As a result, Chayevsky disowned the film. :)

I feel of Russell the way that Troy feels about Bava.

AdamAskov
06-30-2010, 06:32 AM
Russell agreed to the project if he could have complete artistic control of the hallucination scenes. Chayevsky, meanwhile, had a reputation of cutting out many lines of dialogue from films that he was involved in. However, Russell shot in very long takes, effectively making it impossible for Chayevsky to tamper with the film. As a result, Chayevsky disowned the film. :)

I remember reading about this and it blew my mind. Just a clever and brilliant way to knock Chayevsky out. :D

Troy Howarth
06-30-2010, 08:23 AM
Russell agreed to the project if he could have complete artistic control of the hallucination scenes. Chayevsky, meanwhile, had a reputation of cutting out many lines of dialogue from films that he was involved in. However, Russell shot in very long takes, effectively making it impossible for Chayevsky to tamper with the film. As a result, Chayevsky disowned the film. :)

I feel of Russell the way that Troy feels about Bava.

I got that impression, John; you've certainly championed him on a regular basis. As I say, even if I'm not a total enthusiast, I could never write him off - The Devils is too damn good.

I'm pretty sure I've read that Russell was unhappy with the film, too, however.

John G.
06-30-2010, 11:46 AM
I'm pretty sure I've read that Russell was unhappy with the film, too, however.
Hmm, I wonder about that... it was a very successful film for him in the United States, although it set him up for disappointment since his idiosyncratic style is not conducive to American tastes (his next film, CRIMES OF PASSION, was not well received at all). Also, his feud with Chayefsky may have alienated him from American studios. Toward the end of the decade he returned to England for a trio of eccentric genre flicks (GOTHIC, SALOME'S LAST DANCE, LAIR OF THE WHITE WORM) that were scoffed at by "serious" critics. He has never really recovered - 1989's THE RAINBOW and 1991's WHORE got comparatively good reviews but hardly any notice... he's been working sporatically, and below the radar, ever since.

Troy, I see Russell's career having somewhat of a similar arc to that of John Carpenter's.

Troy Howarth
06-30-2010, 08:36 PM
I could well be mistaken - I could have sworn I read that before, but perhaps he wasn't so displeased afterall. Certainly the commercial success did him some good for a brief period, even if, as you say, he didn't find much success in the system.

I've never thought of a Russell/Carpenter parallel... I guess one could argue that point, though they're certainly very different in many respects. Hmm... you've given me something to think about!

John M. Bernhard
07-23-2010, 01:45 PM
A friend of mine pointed this out and I'd thought I'd pass it along. I'm not a fan but I know a lot of people have been looking for a good copy of this (actually, I'd like to see it again and see if I like it any better). The running time is around 108 minutes.

I also know squat about ITunes and how it works (at least with movies), so you're on your own there. But here's some screen grabs, and the transfer looks pretty nice.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/drsd2kill/DEVILS/DEVILS00001.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f112/drsd2kill/DEVILS/DEVILS00002.jpg

Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere. I looked and couldn't find it.


Finally hit the web via a torrent this morning:)

RichardDoyle
07-23-2010, 06:25 PM
Hmm, I wonder about that... it was a very successful film for him in the United States, although it set him up for disappointment since his idiosyncratic style is not conducive to American tastes (his next film, CRIMES OF PASSION, was not well received at all). Also, his feud with Chayefsky may have alienated him from American studios. Toward the end of the decade he returned to England for a trio of eccentric genre flicks (GOTHIC, SALOME'S LAST DANCE, LAIR OF THE WHITE WORM) that were scoffed at by "serious" critics. He has never really recovered - 1989's THE RAINBOW and 1991's WHORE got comparatively good reviews but hardly any notice... he's been working sporatically, and below the radar, ever since.

Troy, I see Russell's career having somewhat of a similar arc to that of John Carpenter's.

I don't remember "Crimes of Passion" and "Gothic" being poorly received. I saw "Gothic" when it came out and I don't think I would have it were poorly received.

"Lair of the White Worm" certainly was. I've honestly never understood why.

Wayne Schmidt
07-23-2010, 06:42 PM
Finally hit the web via a torrent this morning:)I'm surprised it took this long. :D

Alex K.
07-23-2010, 10:47 PM
It's been uploaded to a controversial place known as the armageddon of cinema. Hint hint.

Werner Von Wallenrod
07-24-2010, 03:58 AM
Is this essentially the same as that Luminous DVD, or is it longer/better?

Scott MacDonald
07-24-2010, 04:08 AM
It's been uploaded to a controversial place known as the armageddon of cinema. Hint hint.

And I appreciate it!

Lars Andersen
07-24-2010, 04:59 AM
Is this essentially the same as that Luminous DVD, or is it longer/better?

This! Anyone?!

Fred Anderson
07-24-2010, 08:02 AM
According to the excellent DVD Sleuth (http://dvdsleuth.blogspot.com/), The Devils will be released 10-07-28 - in Spain!

Link to store. (http://www.starscafe.com/es/pelicula/los-demonios.aspx)

I already placed my order.

AdamAskov
07-24-2010, 08:04 AM
According to the excellent DVD Sleuth (http://dvdsleuth.blogspot.com/), The Devils will be released 10-07-28 - in Spain!

Link to store. (http://www.starscafe.com/es/pelicula/los-demonios.aspx)

I already placed my order.

What?! Is this an official release?

Don May Jr
07-24-2010, 08:07 AM
What?! Is this an official release?

Well, if you look at the listing it does say "Warner Brothers Entertainment".

Fred Anderson
07-24-2010, 08:09 AM
Maybe they're trying it out on iTunes and in certain European countries first.... it's very discreet. But I guess it won't take long now until it appears on R1 too.

Don May Jr
07-24-2010, 08:38 AM
Maybe they're trying it out on iTunes and in certain European countries first.... it's very discreet. But I guess it won't take long now until it appears on R1 too.

Hope so. One of my best friends works at Warner Brothers (Director of Operations at Warner Home Video), so I just shot him an email about the Spain DVD and asked him what was up with it. He'd tell me if it was coming out here, but I ordered the Spain DVD anyway.

Troy Howarth
07-24-2010, 11:39 AM
Odd that they'd "test the waters" in a heavily Catholic country, if that is indeed their game plan.

Fred Anderson
07-24-2010, 11:41 AM
Well, something tells me that Spain can stand movies like this than a lot of other countries. If it goes well in a catholic country, then the world is open :)

Troy Howarth
07-24-2010, 11:44 AM
I certainly hope so. I've been saying for years that WB needs to get Russell involved in a SE while he's still able to do so - but even if they just release a pristine, uncut edition that would be good enough.

dave hartley
07-24-2010, 12:12 PM
Be interesting to see how long the version on this Spanish disc turns out to be. The Starscafe listing linked to above says 111m. The DVDGO (http://www.dvdgo.com/dvd-los-demonios/1772203/154275/en_gb) listing says 103m. Neither timing allows for PAL speedup. It could be that one or both of these times have been taken from imdb rather than from information from the distributor.

Either way it looks like Warner doesn't want to pay to use the restored version.

Wayne Schmidt
07-25-2010, 05:02 PM
It's been uploaded to a controversial place known as the armageddon of cinema. Hint hint. . . . . except they took it down too! :rolleyes: Such is this film's fate.

Ben Gart
07-25-2010, 05:18 PM
Yeah, they took it down... I'm stuck at nearly 80%. Grrr.

Allan Cope
07-25-2010, 11:57 PM
I consider this the Last House on the Left of Hollywood films: it is loaded with myths, rumors, and legends, and is quite diffucult to seperate myths from facts. And is in my film experience the most graphic Hollywood film I have seen. Anyone have any other candidates?

Scott MacDonald
07-26-2010, 12:29 AM
Yeah, they took it down... I'm stuck at nearly 80%. Grrr.

Same, if anyone seeding is reading this, please put it back up. I have had my computer running for 3 days now.

Troy Howarth
07-26-2010, 08:19 AM
I consider this the Last House on the Left of Hollywood films: it is loaded with myths, rumors, and legends, and is quite diffucult to seperate myths from facts. And is in my film experience the most graphic Hollywood film I have seen. Anyone have any other candidates?

I can't agree on one front: it's not a "Hollywood" film - it was made in Britain. But in terms of major mainstream bigger budget films, yes, absolutely I agree.

Darcy Parker
07-26-2010, 08:57 AM
Same, if anyone seeding is reading this, please put it back up. I have had my computer running for 3 days now.

If they took it off the tracker you won't be able to finish it even if everyone who was seeding still does. No tracker, no connection.

John M. Bernhard
07-26-2010, 11:14 AM
I contacted the poster and he told me to look for it at another popular tracker that sounds a bit like hemmoroid :) so hopefully we can complete from there once he gets it up and running.

John G.
07-26-2010, 11:23 AM
I have horrible feeling that Warner is going to dump this on DVD-R - if that happens, I'm done - no more Warner purchases for me.

They should just license it out to Criterion and be done with it. They obviously have shown no interest in releasing it.

Grant W
07-26-2010, 01:47 PM
Warner should have set up sub-divisions or something to deal with all the films they've bought up from other studios. They have that many in their catalogue they don't have a fucking clue what to do with them. Bunch of useless cunts.

Troy Howarth
07-26-2010, 02:31 PM
I have horrible feeling that Warner is going to dump this on DVD-R - if that happens, I'm done - no more Warner purchases for me.

They should just license it out to Criterion and be done with it. They obviously have shown no interest in releasing it.

The worst thing about it is the fact that it comes down - or so I'm told - to the fact that it's only not being released because the head of WB doesn't like the film. What an arbitrary and completely baffling point of view.

John G.
07-26-2010, 02:49 PM
I recall a similar issue about Ted Turner being horrified with David Cronenberg's CRASH and attempted to prevent the film from being released, but at least he relented ($?) - there's another film that could use a slick Criterion release!

Come to think of it, didn't Warner license out Cronenberg's DEAD RINGERS to Criterion initially? I know they went on to release it themselves after Criterion lost the rights.

Jonathan H.
07-26-2010, 02:54 PM
The worst thing about it is the fact that it comes down - or so I'm told - to the fact that it's only not being released because the head of WB doesn't like the film. What an arbitrary and completely baffling point of view.

Yes, this rumor and others like it have been bandied about on the interweb, but it seems highly unlikely, not to mention unsubstantiated, and, with a company the size of WB, a decision like this wouldn't come down to the whims of "the head" of the company. I seriously doubt this is why it has yet to be released on DVD, but if people absolutely need a reason to blame the lack of a DEVILS DVD on, I guess it works.

In the meantime, in NYC, one has 3 chances to view THE DEVILS, in uncut form, at the Film Society of Lincoln Center. Mr. Russell will be in attendance on the opening night showing of the film, and at several of his other works on display during the "Russellmania" retro.

Troy Howarth
07-26-2010, 02:59 PM
Yes, this rumor and others like it have been bandied about on the interweb, but it seems highly unlikely, not to mention unsubstantiated, and, with a company the size of WB, a decision like this wouldn't come down to the whims of "the head" of the company. I seriously doubt this is why it has yet to be released on DVD, but if people absolutely need a reason to blame the lack of a DEVILS DVD on, I guess it works.

Oh, I don't know...it could be a rumor, no doubt, but ultimately the head of a corporation would have more than a little say in matters of policy. It could well be a matter of people looking for somebody to peg the blame on as you suggest, but then again - stranger things have happened...

Jonathan H.
07-26-2010, 03:45 PM
Oh, I don't know...it could be a rumor, no doubt, but ultimately the head of a corporation would have more than a little say in matters of policy. It could well be a matter of people looking for somebody to peg the blame on as you suggest, but then again - stranger things have happened...

"It could be a rumor"? That's exactly what it is unless you have a direct quote from someone who has heard it from the lips of the so-called "head of WB"? Give me the name of a real executive with a real title, not "head," and maybe we have something to go on. As it is right now, it's a "I read on AVManiacs that some guy who knows someone who knows someone at WHV who said that..." C'mon. In a corporate conglomerate as big as WB, everything that is released goes through a whole vetting process and meetings upon meetings in various departments. I would think the figurehead on top has bigger fish to fry than whether a barely remembered film (outside of cineaste circles) gets put out on DVD or not...said "head" :D has people below him to figure these things out. As someone who works at a similar media company, though smaller in size, I can tell you that that's how it works here and I doubt it's much different across the industry.

Troy Howarth
07-26-2010, 03:58 PM
I think you're taking it a little too much to heart, Jonathan... like I said, I don't know that it's true. If you'd feel better if I say "it's a rumor," then I'll say it just to play nice. Point is, this is a title that there's much interest in, and WB has displayed zero interest in putting it out. It seems strange, but what do I know... As to the name of said executive, sorry if my word choice is flustering to you - perhaps it was the actual President of Warner Bros. Does that sound better? I'm just going by whatever I've read on the forum - I'm not trying to sound like The Expert.

Jonathan H.
07-26-2010, 04:22 PM
Sure thing, Troy. Your original post put more as "fact" than a rumor read on forums like this one. Let's just say it's a gross over-simplification to say X film isn't out because Y head of Z company doesn't like it, UNLESS one has a direct quote with official corporate correspondence corroborating such a decision. As much as we want to pin something like this on why our favorite X film (THE DEVILS) isn't out on DVD, it really doesn't work that way in the real world. Again, THE DEVILS may have a lot of interest on niche forums like this one, Mobius, Home Theater Forum, yes, but that's still a drop in the bucket compared to the titles that keep the studio afloat (i.e. whatever's on the current slate, INCEPTION, etc.) and that they really give a shit about.


I think you're taking it a little too much to heart, Jonathan... like I said, I don't know that it's true. If you'd feel better if I say "it's a rumor," then I'll say it just to play nice. Point is, this is a title that there's much interest in, and WB has displayed zero interest in putting it out. It seems strange, but what do I know... As to the name of said executive, sorry if my word choice is flustering to you - perhaps it was the actual President of Warner Bros. Does that sound better? I'm just going by whatever I've read on the forum - I'm not trying to sound like The Expert.

Troy Howarth
07-26-2010, 04:24 PM
That makes sense. I just hope they eventually DO decide to put it out - and uncut, at that.

Grant W
07-26-2010, 04:24 PM
I read it was Alan Horn if that's any help Jonathon.

http://www.timewarner.com/corp/management/executives_by_business/warner_bros/bio/horn_alan.html

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2010/03/a_history_of_ce.php

Jonathan H.
07-26-2010, 04:31 PM
I read it was Alan Horn if that's any help Jonathon.

http://www.timewarner.com/corp/management/executives_by_business/warner_bros/bio/horn_alan.html

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2010/03/a_history_of_ce.php

Thanks, Grant. Yes, I've read Mr. Wells' myriad posts on the film and the bit about Mr. Horn. As anyone who reads his columns knows, Wells is apt to post innuendo like this without much substantiation, as he does here, giving us nothing except that Horn is known as a conservative so this may, scratch that, MUST, have something to do with the absence of THE DEVILS on DVD.

How much attention would a DVD release of THE DEVILS really get at this point anyway? I think we're over estimating its effect a bit. All that said, I want to see it already, damn it!

Nice avatar, by the way, Grant.

Wayne Schmidt
07-26-2010, 04:36 PM
While certainly possible, it seems a little unrealistic that anybody at the level of Horn would really take the time or energy to make it a personal vendetta to keep it from getting put out. He may hate it, but there's probably a lot of other films in their library he does as well. Purely speculation, but there's probably other legal entanglements that are enough of a hassle to resolve that's kept it off their current slate. The ITunes incident seems more in line with that. I mean, if thise guy hated it so much why would they bother to remaster it? It might be cleared for certain markets and not others. But who knows?

Jonathan H.
07-26-2010, 04:37 PM
Thanks, Wayne. Agreed.


While certainly possible, it seems a little unrealistic that anybody at the level of Horn would really take the time or energy to make it a personal vendetta to keep it from getting put out. He may hate it, but there's probably a lot of other films in their library he does as well. Purely speculation, but there's probably other legal entanglements that are enough of a hassle to resolve that's kept it off their current slate. The ITunes incident seems more in line with that. I mean, if thise guy hated it so much why would they bother to remaster it? It might be cleared for certain markets and not others. But who knows?

Troy Howarth
07-26-2010, 04:43 PM
While certainly possible, it seems a little unrealistic that anybody at the level of Horn would really take the time or energy to make it a personal vendetta to keep it from getting put out. He may hate it, but there's probably a lot of other films in their library he does as well. Purely speculation, but there's probably other legal entanglements that are enough of a hassle to resolve that's kept it off their current slate. The ITunes incident seems more in line with that. I mean, if thise guy hated it so much why would they bother to remaster it? It might be cleared for certain markets and not others. But who knows?

I seem to have stirred up quite the hornet's nest here - just remember, it's not MY theory! :D Anyway, I think what you're saying makes a great deal of sense.

Troy Howarth
07-26-2010, 04:45 PM
Thanks, Grant. Yes, I've read Mr. Wells' myriad posts on the film and the bit about Mr. Horn. As anyone who reads his columns knows, Wells is apt to post innuendo like this without much substantiation, as he does here, giving us nothing except that Horn is known as a conservative so this may, scratch that, MUST, have something to do with the absence of THE DEVILS on DVD.

How much attention would a DVD release of THE DEVILS really get at this point anyway? I think we're over estimating its effect a bit. All that said, I want to see it already, damn it!

Nice avatar, by the way, Grant.

There's no telling how it would go over, Jonathan. Given the fact that an uncut version would instate material that, even in the jaded times in which we live, would surely upset some viewers - it's a hard call. It's a film that doesn't play "nice" by the Catholic Church, so who knows... It could pass by without a whimper, or it may incite all manner of controversy - I hope we get to find out.

John G.
07-26-2010, 04:50 PM
Not to play the Devil's Advocate for the sake of injecting a little "paranoid rumor" madness into this discussion, but again I point to the case of Ted Turner (head of Fine Line films) wanting to suppress CRASH because he found the movie distasteful. Of course that was a new release and, given the waves that it made in Cannes, actually preventing its release would have been damaging.

But now look at THE DEVILS. As it has been said, this is a film that has interest in Art House and cult circles, at this forum and other movie boards, but that a considerable amount of time has passed since its initial release so that it has faded out of the public eye. In that case, a studio head who objects to the film (and let's be honest - this is certainly one of the more blasphemous titles to be distributed by a mainstream company, a real product of the more permissable atmosphere of the 70s that still had to be edited in this country) can most certainly repress a film and shrug that he offends a couple of movie nerds on a forum, all to the indifferent shrug of a mass culture who couldn't care less.

Sad but (perhaps?) true...

Wayne Schmidt
07-26-2010, 05:00 PM
But now look at THE DEVILS. As it has been said, this is a film that has interest in Art House and cult circles, at this forum and other movie boards, but that a considerable amount of time has passed since its initial release so that it has faded out of the public eye. In that case, a studio head who objects to the film (and let's be honest - this is certainly one of the more blasphemous titles to be distributed by a mainstream company, a real product of the more permissable atmosphere of the 70s that still had to be edited in this country) can most certainly repress a film and shrug that he offends a couple of movie nerds on a forum, all to the indifferent shrug of a mass culture who couldn't care less.

Sad but (perhaps?) true...But then why allow repertory screenings that are scheduled in NYC? It's popped up at a number of film festivals lately. I mean, if you're going to bury a film, then it seems you'd put out an edict that it doesn't get shown, period. And the fact it was licensed to ITunes, even in error for a short time shows that this decree isn't very well known to all divisions of Warners. And again, why remaster it? That's an expensive proposition if you're never going to allow it to be used.

Fred Anderson
07-26-2010, 05:00 PM
Soooo.... Is it just me who ordered the Spanish disc? ;)

John G.
07-26-2010, 05:05 PM
How many years has it been since THE DEVILS was remastered? It seems we've been having these sorts of discussions (about whether or not it will be released) for years now, punctuated with the occasional Warner "no plans to release this title at this time" line every time they have an online chat. I agree, it makes no sense but what else are we supposed to think? :(

Jonathan H.
07-26-2010, 05:08 PM
As you say, John, CRASH was being released at the moment that Ted had his hissy fit and the film was a cause celebre at the time. That's a crucial factor. THE DEVILS on the other hand is 40 years old at this point. I would be surprised if it would even be on Horn's radar unless someone put the bug in his ear. It's funny how much we can elevate the importance of films like this in our little online communities while the world at large moves along blissfully in its ignorance of THE DEVILS or the nutty Englishman who directed it.

If we replaced THE DEVILS with something like ANTICHRIST, Russell with von Trier, and IFC with Warner Bros., then there might be a discussion. Obviously, Horn and company chose not to buy that film and maybe that was because Horn put the kibosh on it, I don't know, or, more likely, it was never even on the table.

Fact is the CRASH and Ice-T COP KILLER controversies happened at the moment when they were released--they were in the public consciousness and the media was covering them full-blast. Such is not the case with THE DEVILS.

When THE DEVILS is released on DVD / Blu, and I'm confident it will be eventually, I'm guessing the specialty publications such as Film Comment (which is published by the Film Society of Lincoln Center who are putting on the Russell retro), Cineaste, Video Watchdog, etc. will be all over it, but it may register a thumbnail, if that, in Entertainment Weekly. In other words, the same people (us) yearning for its release now will be just about the only ones exalting in said release whenever it happens.


Not to play the Devil's Advocate for the sake of injecting a little "paranoid rumor" madness into this discussion, but again I point to the case of Ted Turner (head of Fine Line films) wanting to suppress CRASH because he found the movie distasteful. Of course that was a new release and, given the waves that it made in Cannes, actually preventing its release would have been damaging.

But now look at THE DEVILS. As it has been said, this is a film that has interest in Art House and cult circles, at this forum and other movie boards, but that a considerable amount of time has passed since its initial release so that it has faded out of the public eye. In that case, a studio head who objects to the film (and let's be honest - this is certainly one of the more blasphemous titles to be distributed by a mainstream company, a real product of the more permissable atmosphere of the 70s that still had to be edited in this country) can most certainly repress a film and shrug that he offends a couple of movie nerds on a forum, all to the indifferent shrug of a mass culture who couldn't care less.

Sad but (perhaps?) true...

Thomas D.
07-26-2010, 05:09 PM
I recall a similar issue about Ted Turner being horrified with David Cronenberg's CRASH and attempted to prevent the film from being released, but at least he relented ($?) - there's another film that could use a slick Criterion release!

Come to think of it, didn't Warner license out Cronenberg's DEAD RINGERS to Criterion initially? I know they went on to release it themselves after Criterion lost the rights.

Criterion actually released Crash on laserdisc. I don't have it, but Cronenberg does a commentary on it that's not on the DVD. I'm not sure what else was on it.

Warner did initially license out Dead Ringers to both Anchor Bay and Criterion (for the special edition) in 98/99 or so. Warner took back the rights to release it on their own. They did license stuff out in the early days of DVD, but stopped 7 years ago or so. I heard some rumors that Warners was going to license some stuff to Criterion, though. That's probably the best bet for The Devils at some point.

Magnus Wersen
07-26-2010, 05:11 PM
Soooo.... Is it just me who ordered the Spanish disc? ;)

I was considering buying it today but since I was burned the last time I bought a Spanish disc (the absymal version of Bear Island), I've decided to wait.

RichardDoyle
07-26-2010, 05:29 PM
Nevermind ... I noticed this was pretty thoroughly discussed already.

Wayne Schmidt
07-26-2010, 05:30 PM
How many years has it been since THE DEVILS was remastered? It seems we've been having these sorts of discussions (about whether or not it will be released) for years now, punctuated with the occasional Warner "no plans to release this title at this time" line every time they have an online chat. I agree, it makes no sense but what else are we supposed to think? :(Well, I'm not saying something isn't holding it up, but I just think it's more in the line of a legal or contract issue rather than a swat from a Warners exec because he's personally offended. Like you mention, it's been announced and then canceled, remastered (I'm only basing that on the quality of the screens from the ITunes files, that it's in the right AR for a change and the general consensus is it looked really good . . . . but as you mention the transfer still could have been done awhile back) and briefly licensed. If the film is a pariah to this guy it seems it would just sit in a vault quietly and not have seen the light of day or even be considered for a release. Usually titles selected to go out on HV are culled from a list of potential candidates. That list goes through multiple divisions, gets discussed, analyzed for saleability potential vs. cost to prepare (technical, legal, ect.). It doesn't seem likely THE DEVILS would make it all the way to an announcement stage multiple times if there was some exec that was going to get highly pissed over it's release. It would have gotten killed before that.

I still don't get why they'd allow multiple festival screenings to keep reminding people about it, either.

Again, I'm just playing devil's advocate in the other direction. I have no insider knowledge outside of working in studios and knowing the usual path movies take being selected for HV release. So it may well be that something more unusual is going on here. I'd love to know about it if that was true! :D

Don May Jr
07-26-2010, 06:23 PM
Soooo.... Is it just me who ordered the Spanish disc? ;)

I went ahead and ordered it, too, since my buddy at Warner said there are no immediate plans for the disc to come out in the USA.

Don May Jr
07-26-2010, 06:25 PM
Well, I'm not saying something isn't holding it up, but I just think it's more in the line of a legal or contract issue rather than a swat from a Warners exec because he's personally offended.

That would be EXACTLY right, although I don't know what the legal holdup is, personally.

Ben Gart
07-26-2010, 06:40 PM
Who owns the film in the UK -- Warners, as well? They really are a bunch of uncooperative twats. The BFI desperately wants to release Hammer's DRACULA (someone from BFI told me so directly), but WB isn't playing nicely with them.

Grant W
07-26-2010, 07:45 PM
Warners World wide I think Ben. Mark Kermode had a rant about it on the BBC site.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/markkermode/2008/08/opinion_the_devils_across_the.html

Marc Edward Heuck
07-26-2010, 10:28 PM
Come to think of it, didn't Warner license out Cronenberg's DEAD RINGERS to Criterion initially? I know they went on to release it themselves after Criterion lost the rights.

It was Morgan Creek and Media who licensed DEAD RINGERS to Criterion for laserdisc, and later Anchor Bay (who inherited Media's license) who signed off on the Criterion DVD, long before Morgan Creek set up a deal at WB; thus when the studio took control of the Morgan Creek library, the title reverted to them. So WB never participated in that license.

Thomas D.
07-27-2010, 05:48 AM
It was Morgan Creek and Media who licensed DEAD RINGERS to Criterion for laserdisc, and later Anchor Bay (who inherited Media's license) who signed off on the Criterion DVD, long before Morgan Creek set up a deal at WB; thus when the studio took control of the Morgan Creek library, the title reverted to them. So WB never participated in that license.

Ah yes, that makes more sense. I must've screwed up my timeline. The titles I was thinking of were probably licensed before Warner's got to them.

Anyway, does Lionsgate still have all of the Vestron stuff? Does Janus still have Mahler? Image did release Mahler on DVD and VHS in 98 or so through Janus, so maybe that could be a future Criterion release (if they still hold the rights; I'm speaking of within the U.S. of course). Also, even if WB has some sort of a vendetta against The Devils, that doesn't excuse letting all of the other Ken Russell WB stuff rot on a shelf. I guess some it may find its way onto DVD-R, at least (hopefully a WS version of The Boyfriend will be released before hell freezes over).

John G.
07-27-2010, 08:12 AM
Not to simply beat up on Warner, since MGM should also release THE MUSIC LOVERS as well.

Troy Howarth
07-27-2010, 08:15 AM
It seems to me that Russell is rather poorly represented on DVD altogether.

John G.
07-27-2010, 08:22 AM
I see that MGM dumped VALENTINO on their DVD-R series... not his best film but I'm disappointed.

Troy, you should come up to NYC this Friday for that screening of THE DEVILS with Ken Russell in attendance.

Troy Howarth
07-27-2010, 08:27 AM
I wish I could, John... I've just got too much on my plate right now. I expect a full report, regardless!

Adrian J.
07-27-2010, 09:00 AM
Warners World wide I think Ben. Mark Kermode had a rant about it on the BBC site.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/markkermode/2008/08/opinion_the_devils_across_the.html

I like Kermode ,he does get one thing wrong though,'The Devils' will NEVER be released in a truly uncut version, as it simply no longer exists,Russell made the film under strict scrutiny by the head of the BBFC,I remember having a booklet free with 'Sight And Sound' magazine,where Russell details what happened,first they vetted the script,then John Trevelyan[head censor at the BBFC] suggested the removal of the two more notorious scenes ['Rape Of Christ','Bone Scene'] but as well as these scenes 89 seconds worth of cuts were required,these were not found by Mark Kermode ,they included the shortening of torture scenes,removing more and more footage,to the point where you could not see what was going on and It became almost subliminal [view the hobbling torture and slow It down and you'll see what I mean].I also believe some footage from Grandiers death was lost.

http://www.screenonline.org.uk/film/id/1050759/index.html

The handling of this film by Warner Bros reminds me of two previous cases one not related to Warner Bros,Alan Klein Vs Alejandro Jodorowsky and the malicious handling of the 'Scala Cinema' case.In the early 90's London's membership cinema 'The Scala' in Kings Cross,showed the long banned [in the UK] 'A Clockwork Orange',[I personally thought this was a wind up,so I never attended,the film was advertised as 'Malcolm McDowell' in 'If' + surprise film ????????????????' the program was orange and the screening on April 1st [April Fools Day !],but It turned out to indeed be a screening of the film,long unseen in the UK since it's original release,somehow Warner Brothers found out about this screening and refused all Warner product from being screened again by The Scala, also with the full backing of Stanley Kubrick,they launched legal proceedings against the cinema.The Scala closed as the debts mounted [latter re opening as a music venue,a very sad loss to cult movie fans].'A Clockwork Orange' was not seen again in the UK until after Stanley Kubrick's death.I think the same situation will befall 'The Devils' ,It seems like Russell has annoyed someone high up in the company,the only thing that might make a difference would be,signing the petition [linked in the Kermode clip above],or an organised fan boycott of Warner Bros product including all it's subsidery companies,It may seem drastic, but It depends much do you want to see this film released while Russell is still alive, I don't see any other way unless Warner Bros relent.

Jonathan H.
07-27-2010, 11:56 AM
I like Kermode ,he does get one thing wrong though,'The Devils' will NEVER be released in a truly uncut version, as it simply no longer exists,Russell made the film under strict scrutiny by the head of the BBFC,I remember having a booklet free with 'Sight And Sound' magazine,where Russell details what happened,first they vetted the script,then John Trevelyan[head censor at the BBFC] suggested the removal of the two more notorious scenes ['Rape Of Christ','Bone Scene'] but as well as these scenes 89 seconds worth of cuts were required,these were not found by Mark Kermode ,they included the shortening of torture scenes,removing more and more footage,to the point where you could not see what was going on and It became almost subliminal [view the hobbling torture and slow It down and you'll see what I mean].I also believe some footage from Grandiers death was lost.

http://www.screenonline.org.uk/film/id/1050759/index.html

The handling of this film by Warner Bros reminds me of two previous cases one not related to Warner Bros,Alan Klein Vs Alejandro Jodorowsky and the malicious handling of the 'Scala Cinema' case.In the early 90's London's membership cinema 'The Scala' in Kings Cross,showed the long banned [in the UK] 'A Clockwork Orange',[I personally thought this was a wind up,so I never attended,the film was advertised as 'Malcolm McDowell' in 'If' + surprise film ????????????????' the program was orange and the screening on April 1st [April Fools Day !],but It turned out to indeed be a screening of the film,long unseen in the UK since it's original release,somehow Warner Brothers found out about this screening and refused all Warner product from being screened again by The Scala, also with the full backing of Stanley Kubrick,they launched legal proceedings against the cinema.The Scala closed as the debts mounted [latter re opening as a music venue,a very sad loss to cult movie fans].'A Clockwork Orange' was not seen again in the UK until after Stanley Kubrick's death.I think the same situation will befall 'The Devils' ,It seems like Russell has annoyed someone high up in the company,the only thing that might make a difference would be,signing the petition [linked in the Kermode clip above],or an organised fan boycott of Warner Bros product including all it's subsidery companies,It may seem drastic, but It depends much do you want to see this film released while Russell is still alive, I don't see any other way unless Warner Bros relent.

Whoever programmed CLOCKWORK at the Scala was an idiot to think that Warner and / or Kubrick would not find out about it...

Back to THE DEVILS, Don May, who has a good friend at WB, has already contributed earlier in this thread that the hold-up with the film has nothing to do with a vendetta, but is simply a legal issue. Enough with the conspiracy theories.

Troy Howarth
07-27-2010, 12:04 PM
Whoever programmed CLOCKWORK at the Scala was an idiot to think that Warner and / or Kubrick would not find out about it...

Back to THE DEVILS, Don May, who has a good friend at WB, has already contributed earlier in this thread that the hold-up with the film has nothing to do with a vendetta, but is simply a legal issue. Enough with the conspiracy theories.

I can only image the Scala wasn't aware of what a control freak Kubrick was about his work - I'd never heard that one before, but it's not surprising that he got wind of it. He was in a relatively unique position with WB - that film made tons of money in the UK, but after he and his family received death threats he requested that it be withdrawn; not many filmmakers would have had such a request granted.

With regards to The Devils, does anybody have any theories on WHAT legal issues could be involved here?

John G.
07-27-2010, 12:19 PM
I'm sure they'll be a Q&A at THE DEVILS screening this Friday and I'm sure someone will ask about Warner Bros. It will be interesting to hear what he says. Incidentally, I met Russell once before at a screening of a Broadway play he directed about two years ago, but I was too star struck to do anything except blather some praises. :D

Troy Howarth
07-27-2010, 12:30 PM
I'm sure they'll be a Q&A at THE DEVILS screening this Friday and I'm sure someone will ask about Warner Bros. It will be interesting to hear what he says. Incidentally, I met Russell once before at a screening of a Broadway play he directed about two years ago, but I was too star struck to do anything except blather some praises. :D

Yes, please do ask him about his take on the situation; it'll make for interesting reading, I'm sure!

Jonathan H.
07-27-2010, 12:42 PM
I can only image the Scala wasn't aware of what a control freak Kubrick was about his work - I'd never heard that one before, but it's not surprising that he got wind of it. He was in a relatively unique position with WB - that film made tons of money in the UK, but after he and his family received death threats he requested that it be withdrawn; not many filmmakers would have had such a request granted.

With regards to The Devils, does anybody have any theories on WHAT legal issues could be involved here?

Anyone who programs film knows that you need to get studio permission, i.e. pay a licensing fee, to screen a film publicly (public domain films don't apply here, obviously), even for a classroom screening. Maybe the studio finds out, maybe they don't. But, if you're publicizing it, which you will if you want people to come, the studio will more than likely find out. And, if you're charging admission, as these guys were, you damn well better do it legally. For a film as hot button as CLOCKWORK, I don't know how anyone could imagine it wouldn't get back to Kubrick and the studio. England's a lot smaller than the USA.

As to the legal issues pertaining to THE DEVILS, whatever they are, I wouldn't imagine them being very interesting to a cineaste crowd or a crowd of lawyers for that matter, and if someone asks at the Q & A, I doubt it will be disclosed. This goes on all the time...that's why there are entertainment lawyers.

Troy Howarth
07-27-2010, 12:45 PM
It could well be something very dry and dull - but there's no harm in asking and certainly I'm intrigued. :)

Adrian J.
07-27-2010, 01:00 PM
That would be EXACTLY right, although I don't know what the legal holdup is, personally.

The film has previously been available on VHS both in the UK and US and as a LD in the US,so I wonder what this mystery legal issue is ? I bumped into Ken Russell in 'Stanleys' Wardour St [buying DV tapes for one of his low budget projects],nice guy,got the 'Stanleys' catalogue signed as It was a surprise bumping into him like that,I do remember asking him at the time about the forthcoming DVD of 'The Devils' and he told me that he had recorded a commentary for It,so It was in the bag ready for release at that point,so I just wonder what has changed since then,strange !
It's hardly a conspiracy theory Jonathan, It's common knowledge that Russell upset the top brass at Warner US, but I trust Don May on this and maybe there is some sort of legal issue, but I don't understand what that could be,DVD gets released in Spain but blocked from itunes in the US.

As far as 'The Scala' showing 'Clockwork',yeah probably not a good idea showing that film,Kubrick banned it in the UK,festival screenings at the NFT etc were declined,you could not see it FULL STOP ! It was not advertised 'Malcolm McDowell in 'IF' + surprise film ????????' This was the ONLY cinema you could see many films in the UK [Argento/Bava/Meyer/Cafe Flesh/Thundercrack/Salo you name it from Arthouse to trash to cult classics].You have to bear in mind the climate of film censorship at that time in the UK,videoshops being raided by the Police and people actually serving prison terms for trading horror films ! It was also the cinema where the Beatles filmed the concert scenes in 'A Hard Days Night','The Stooges' played [and if my memory is correct the Mick Rock,cover shots for 'Raw Power were taken],Chow Yun Fat appeared there on stage to introduce several films in 90 [91 ?],Argento also visited around the same time,but going back to the 'Clockwork Orange' fiasco,the cinema staff were a bit p*ssed off with Warner Bros and the court case they brought and organised coach trips to Paris to watch the film during the trial.They printed up some T-Shirts with one of the two cats [Huston ?] that lived in the cinema [had a very William Castle moment when one walked along the back of my seat during the Evil Dead lol !] with a mock up as 'Alex' 'Scala Cinema-Droog In the Dock',still got mine,I'll post it later in the week when I get back to Bristol.

Adrian J.
07-27-2010, 01:30 PM
Whoever programmed CLOCKWORK at the Scala was an idiot to think that Warner and / or Kubrick would not find out about it...


I don't honestly think they cared,and It was their downfall in the end,they had a very punk attitude to censorship and were constantly challenging the BBFC,local authorities etc.
Also one more thing about 'Clockwork',I've got a documentary 'Without Walls:Forbidden Fruit' [Channel Four UK] that was held up in court, as Kubrick did not even want clips screened in the UK.Channel Four won in court and the documentary was screened,hosted by critic/writer 'Tony Parsons' the documentary documented the strange relationship between the media/public and posed the question 'Why aren't people in the UK allowed to view this film ?',criticising Kubrick for not making public [during his lifetime], the reasons for his withdraw of the film in the UK [ironicly the only people who could view it were prisoners ! ],the documentary ended challenging Kubrick to explain his position 'So Mr Kubrick,show us your yarballs if you've got any yarballs'
Anyway got a bit off topic now so back to 'The Devils',sorry about that.

Jonathan H.
07-27-2010, 01:41 PM
The film has previously been available on VHS both in the UK and US and as a LD in the US,so I wonder what this mystery legal issue is ? I bumped into Ken Russell in 'Stanleys' Wardour St [buying DV tapes for one of his low budget projects],nice guy,got the 'Stanleys' catalogue signed as It was a surprise bumping into him like that,I do remember asking him at the time about the forthcoming DVD of 'The Devils' and he told me that he had recorded a commentary for It,so It was in the bag ready for release at that point,so I just wonder what has changed since then,strange !
It's hardly a conspiracy theory Jonathan, It's common knowledge that Russell upset the top brass at Warner US, but I trust Don May on this and maybe there is some sort of legal issue, but I don't understand what that could be,DVD gets released in Spain but blocked from itunes in the US.

Again, legal issues come up all the time when it comes to home video formats. Whether the film was released on VHS or LD probably has no bearing here as the discussion concerns DVD / Blu-ray, which is a different format and would necessitate new agreements to be drawn up. The hold-up Could have something to do with ownership, territorial rights, ancillary rights, who knows? There have certainly been other times when films have been announced for DVD and pulled at the last moment because of a legal snafu that emerged late in the game. Usually, things are sorted out and the DVD is eventually released.

If a commentary was recorded by Russell under the auspices of WHV, it would seem that they want / plan on a DVD release of the film, but the aforementioned legal complications threw a wrench into the plans.

It sure seems like a conspiracy theory when so many people are convinced that Warners has a vendetta against Russell in spite of the fact that we have some reliable knowledge from a respected industry professional (Don May) indicating a legal issue, not an "Alan Horn hates Ken Russell and all anti-Christian, anti-conservative films and he is purposely burying this film" issue.

Adrian J.
07-27-2010, 02:10 PM
If a commentary was recorded by Russell under the auspices of WHV, it would seem that they want / plan on a DVD release of the film, but the aforementioned legal complications threw a wrench into the plans.

It sure seems like a conspiracy theory when so many people are convinced that Warners has a vendetta against Russell in spite of the fact that we have some reliable knowledge from a respected industry professional (Don May) indicating a legal issue, not an "Alan Horn hates Ken Russell and all anti-Christian, anti-conservative films and he is purposely burying this film" issue.

Jonathan please watch this;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/markkermode/2008/08/opinion_the_devils_across_the.html

Mark Kermode who made the documentary 'Hell On Earth:Making The Devils',moderated the commentary,found the 'Rape Of Christ' footage and premiered it with the footage restored, says explicitly that Warner US had got 'cold feet' about a DVD release,this does contradict what Don May Jr has said,but I have no idea who is right ! It may be possible that Warner were set against the footage being restored to the film, the Kermode documentary 'Hell On Earth' was only allowed to be screened once with this footage included.I'm not suggesting that Warner have a vendetta against Russell,but they certainly seem to have a problem with his film !

Jonathan H.
07-27-2010, 02:53 PM
Jonathan please watch this;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/markkermode/2008/08/opinion_the_devils_across_the.html

Mark Kermode who made the documentary 'Hell On Earth:Making The Devils',moderated the commentary,found the 'Rape Of Christ' footage and premiered it with the footage restored, says explicitly that Warner US had got 'cold feet' about a DVD release,this does contradict what Don May Jr has said,but I have no idea who is right ! It may be possible that Warner were set against the footage being restored to the film, the Kermode documentary 'Hell On Earth' was only allowed to be screened once with this footage included.I'm not suggesting that Warner have a vendetta against Russell,but they certainly seem to have a problem with his film !

Great, thanks, Adrian. I'm familiar with the Kermode piece. I'm kind've done with the discussion here as it just going in circles and I look forward to seeing the film, uncut, in the presence of Mr. Russell this Friday evening at Walter Reade in NY. If I have the chance, I will ask the filmmaker what his take on the absence of THE DEVILS on DVD is.

Wayne Schmidt
07-27-2010, 03:01 PM
That clip is from 2008, and Kermode seems to only be referencing the "uncut" version (or at least a version including the "Rape of Christ" sequence). He may be right, since it's never been released theatrically or on HV. Since it changes the cleared, theatrical cut of the film Warners may possibly find it too much of a hassle to re-instate the material for legal or contractual reasons. When you change the content of a released film by adding material you have to go through all sorts of hoops to be sure the new stuff doesn't contain anything you might have problems with . . . . music cue, actor or actress that might be entitled to additional compensation or whatever. It can get expensive and risky tracking all that down. 99% of the time these sorts of decisions end up being a "cost vs. profitability" issue.

As far as the standard version, I still think it's something quite mundane that just hasn't been sorted, as Don's friend confirmed. If there was a big red biohazard stamp on the show file saying "We hate this movie, do not touch" you wouldn't see rep screenings, or even the short-lived ITunes download. It would just stay buried in their vaults.

Adrian J.
07-27-2010, 03:24 PM
That clip is from 2008, and Kermode seems to only be referencing the "uncut" version (or at least a version including the "Rape of Christ" sequence). He may be right, since it's never been released theatrically or on HV. Since it changes the cleared, theatrical cut of the film Warners may possibly find it too much of a hassle to re-instate the material for legal or contractual reasons. When you change the content of a released film by adding material you have to go through all sorts of hoops to be sure the new stuff doesn't contain anything you might have problems with . . . . music cue, actor or actress that might be entitled to additional compensation or whatever. It can get expensive and risky tracking all that down. 99% of the time these sorts of decisions end up being a "cost vs. profitability" issue.

As far as the standard version, I still think it's something quite mundane that just hasn't been sorted, as Don's friend confirmed. If there was a big red biohazard stamp on the show file saying "We hate this movie, do not touch" you wouldn't see rep screenings, or even the short-lived ITunes download. It would just stay buried in their vaults.

Some good points there,yes I know the clip is from 2008,but this has been going on for years.Jeez how long ago did that 'Hell On Earth' doc air.So in 2008 It was a problem with Warner getting 'cold feet' now It's a legal problem,I'm sure we would all like to know what the hell is going on here.It is strange that a restored version has screened at the NFT in London and the US.I hope someone from here gets the chance to ask Ken Russell at the upcoming screening,If It is a warner issue,I'm damn sure he'll make it known if asked !

John G.
07-31-2010, 07:42 AM
So I attended last night's screening of Ken Russell's THE DEVILS at Lincoln Center in NYC... Ken Russell was indeed there, and as a surprise bonus Vanessa Redgrave was as well!

The print screened was a 35-mm version that, unfortunately, did not have the "Rape of Christ" sequence... there was only moderate print damage in some scenes and it looked wonderful to see it on the big screen.

The Q&A was a mixed bag... the opening question took the conversation away from the film and to international human rights, much to the palpable impatience of the crowd. Then a "crazy beard man" walked up to the side of the stage to tell Russell how he thinks this film is on the same level as Kubrick.

Someone thankfully asked about Warner Brothers and Ken Russell merely said that the studio hadn't like the film from the very beginning. Then the moderator brought up the (fake?) rumor about a note being attached to the film in the Warner Archives saying that it will "never see the light of day." Not very conclusive.

The last, and best, question came from someone asking how it was like to work with Oliver Reed. Russell launched into an amusing anecdote about how the man was difficult to work with and that they devised a system whereby he would tell Reed whether to act "Moody 1, Moody 2 or Moody 3." :)

As a final note, Russell looked very frail last night, but the audience was very receptive and gave both him and Vanessa Redgrave (who hadn't seen the film since the premiere!) standing ovations.

Don May Jr
07-31-2010, 08:28 AM
Mark Kermode who made the documentary 'Hell On Earth:Making The Devils',moderated the commentary,found the 'Rape Of Christ' footage and premiered it with the footage restored, says explicitly that Warner US had got 'cold feet' about a DVD release,this does contradict what Don May Jr has said,but I have no idea who is right !

Unless my friend of almost 20 years, who just happens to be "Director of Operations" at Warner Home Video is lying to me, he told me there was a legal issue. This would make sense and, as I understand it, Warner was very set on doing THE DEVILS even a few years ago on DVD (he showed me a new DVD cover for it, which you can now find online... it's one of the first things that comes up on Google Images), but something about the US territory caused it to be shelved.

Troy Howarth
07-31-2010, 01:03 PM
So I attended last night's screening of Ken Russell's THE DEVILS at Lincoln Center in NYC... Ken Russell was indeed there, and as a surprise bonus Vanessa Redgrave was as well!

The print screened was a 35-mm version that, unfortunately, did not have the "Rape of Christ" sequence... there was only moderate print damage in some scenes and it looked wonderful to see it on the big screen.

The Q&A was a mixed bag... the opening question took the conversation away from the film and to international human rights, much to the palpable impatience of the crowd. Then a "crazy beard man" walked up to the side of the stage to tell Russell how he thinks this film is on the same level as Kubrick.

Someone thankfully asked about Warner Brothers and Ken Russell merely said that the studio hadn't like the film from the very beginning. Then the moderator brought up the (fake?) rumor about a note being attached to the film in the Warner Archives saying that it will "never see the light of day." Not very conclusive.

The last, and best, question came from someone asking how it was like to work with Oliver Reed. Russell launched into an amusing anecdote about how the man was difficult to work with and that they devised a system whereby he would tell Reed whether to act "Moody 1, Moody 2 or Moody 3." :)

As a final note, Russell looked very frail last night, but the audience was very receptive and gave both him and Vanessa Redgrave (who hadn't seen the film since the premiere!) standing ovations.

Sounds like a wonderful experience!

Ian Jane
07-31-2010, 01:08 PM
It was pretty cool, even if Lincoln Center oversold the show (a few of us had to sit on chairs they brought in from outside along the back wall). It was rather charming to see how touched Russell appeared to be by the audience's response. Cut or not, the print they showed (on loan from an English film archive) was very nice and Redgrave's presence was a nice surprise. Even if she did ramble on during the Q&A she seemed like a very kind and sincerely sweet woman.

Troy Howarth
07-31-2010, 01:16 PM
I've never heard her speak of the film before, so I always assumed that she didn't care for it.

John G.
07-31-2010, 01:22 PM
Doesn't she contribute to that Hell on Earth documentary? I haven't seen it in a long time but I seem to recall seeing her on it.

I really wish I could see more of these films, particularly the rather obscure ones like SAVAGE MESSIAH and THE MUSIC LOVERS (both wonderful) but unfortunately I've got class.

Troy Howarth
07-31-2010, 02:57 PM
Hmmm... I seem to recall taking note that she DIDN'T - that's why I was thinking she wasn't keen on it... but I could well be mistaken.

John - do you by any chance have copies of Savage Messiah, Mahler and The Music Lovers? I'd love to see all three of them, but they're hard to come by.

John G.
07-31-2010, 03:10 PM
Nope, sorry... you can probably find them online if you do a bit of searching (which is where I first saw them).

Marc Edward Heuck
07-31-2010, 06:29 PM
It was pretty cool, even if Lincoln Center oversold the show (a few of us had to sit on chairs they brought in from outside along the back wall). It was rather charming to see how touched Russell appeared to be by the audience's response. Cut or not, the print they showed (on loan from an English film archive) was very nice and Redgrave's presence was a nice surprise. Even if she did ramble on during the Q&A she seemed like a very kind and sincerely sweet woman.

I was told the print actually came from Harvard's archive in America. Jeff Wells at Hollywood Elsewhere claims that WB would not allow them to import the 111-minute UK print, so perhaps that one was substitued at the last minute.

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2010/07/slight_russsell.php

WB does have a print of THE DEVILS in their Burbank vault, struck around the late '90's, which is what has been used for the few screenings they have consented to on the West Coast, including the Egyptian and the Nuart.


Don: I don't think your 20 year friend is lying to you either, but I would not be surprised if someone at the studio is lying to him. My experience has taught me that people at the majors will make up all kinds of stories or just use a blanket term like "legal issues" without in-depth explanation in order to shut up conversation about a movie they don't want to discuss.

Bottom line, they will flat out lie to civilians like us. I'll never forget when I had done work on the DVD release of a larger studio film where the soundtrack had been promised for release as well but had to be pulled at the last minute; at the premiere event, I asked if there were still any copies of the yanked soundtrack floating around, and the rep said no, they were all destroyed...minutes after I saw that same person give one to another party guest who just happened to be more famous than me.

President Reagan said it best: Trust, but verify.

Jeff McKay
07-31-2010, 06:44 PM
I wish I was in New York this week to go to some of these screenings. THE DEVILS screening seems like it was an amazing event. I've been to screenings of it in the past, the last time for me at the New Beverly some years back, but with both Russell and Redgrave in attendance, that would have been incredible.

We're getting a much less comprehensive Russell retrospective in late August in L.A. at the American Cinematheque. Only six films: Tommy (again) + Lisztomania. The Devils + Altered States. Women In Love + Mahler. Russell will at least be in attendance between the films on all three nights so I'll be there at least one night, but this line-up of films is kind of disappointing. Where is THE MUSIC LOVERS, SAVAGE MESSIAH, or THE BOY FRIEND? I love the film, but really how many times does TOMMY have to be screened? The Cinematheque just showed it a few months ago and there was even a well-publicized special screening with Russell in attendance a few weeks back. To be fair, the Cinematheque did have a very rare screening of THE MUSIC LOVERS a couple of months ago with Richard Chamberlain in attendance (but it was relegated to the second feature in a Chamberlain retro after the dull PETULIA). What a gorgeous print it was, too. I've watched my WS dvd-r of THE MUSIC LOVERS a million times and finally seeing it on the BIG screen was still a major revelation - what a beautiful film, and amazing on the big screen. Russell himself considers it his best film so why it's not being included in the L.A. retrospective is beyond me. SAVAGE MESSIAH would have also been great as it's another one of his best films, and very rarely screened. Still, I'm glad Russell is finally getting so much attention with these festivals. Now, we just need DVDs of his films.

Jonathan H.
07-31-2010, 07:04 PM
I was told the print actually came from Harvard's archive in America. Jeff Wells at Hollywood Elsewhere claims that WB would not allow them to import the 111-minute UK print, so perhaps that one was substitued at the last minute.

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2010/07/slight_russsell.php

WB does have a print of THE DEVILS in their Burbank vault, struck around the late '90's, which is what has been used for the few screenings they have consented to on the West Coast, including the Egyptian and the Nuart.


Don: I don't think your 20 year friend is lying to you either, but I would not be surprised if someone at the studio is lying to him. My experience has taught me that people at the majors will make up all kinds of stories or just use a blanket term like "legal issues" without in-depth explanation in order to shut up conversation about a movie they don't want to discuss.

Bottom line, they will flat out lie to civilians like us. I'll never forget when I had done work on the DVD release of a larger studio film where the soundtrack had been promised for release as well but had to be pulled at the last minute; at the premiere event, I asked if there were still any copies of the yanked soundtrack floating around, and the rep said no, they were all destroyed...minutes after I saw that same person give one to another party guest who just happened to be more famous than me.



THE STAINS, eh? Didn't know any of those soundtracks leaked out beyond the Amazon MP3 download.

Considering some of the other stuff WHV has put out recently that were thought to be deliberately suppressed for content reasons, such as CRUISING, leads me to believe that there is more truth to these "legal issues" than the gossip spread my Mr. Wells and THE DEVILS will come out before too long (in the meantime, I too ordered the Spanish DVD).

Yes, the print was supposed to have come from the Harvard Film Archive and I suspect that's why they were only able to screen once. It looked very good to my eyes despite some complaints on HTF.

As for a 111 min. UK print, I thought the longer (longest?) cut didn't exist in 35mm form.

Adrian J.
08-01-2010, 11:34 AM
Unless my friend of almost 20 years, who just happens to be "Director of Operations" at Warner Home Video is lying to me, he told me there was a legal issue. This would make sense and, as I understand it, Warner was very set on doing THE DEVILS even a few years ago on DVD (he showed me a new DVD cover for it, which you can now find online... it's one of the first things that comes up on Google Images), but something about the US territory caused it to be shelved.

Thanks for that Don,my comment was not supposed to be offensive,just factual.A couple of points:

1] The cover you refer to was roundly thought to be a fake [see Tim Lucas's blog]

http://videowatchdog.blogspot.com/2008_02_24_archive.html

This cover even contains Arabs in the background and several Roman soldiers, no doubt a dodgy photoshop exercise.Is this the cover you are refering to, or is it a different one, It's hard to believe a big company like Warner Bros would make such a stupid mistake !
http://www.dvdactive.com/news/releases/the-devils.html

***edit Looks like I might be wrong about this, If you look at the colour promotional still on the Wikipedia site,this scene DOES occur,It's Sister Jeanne's hallucination sequence imagining Grandier as Christ,thus explaining the Arabs and Romans in the background***
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devils_(film)

2] The press release was highly suspect as well, unless of course, the promotion dept thinks 'The Devils' is a comedy !

3] You mention the US territory, however 'The Devils' was listed by UK web vendors [such as Play.com] forthcoming in a special edition w/ commentary + doc.Now why would have that been pulled as well ? The information must have been provided by Warner Bros,as It was very detailed,naming the documentary as 'Hell On Earth' etc.

Mark Kermode is definitely in the loop regarding this release, after all he did provided many of the features that were to have been included on the UK DVD,and more importantly knows Ken Russell.The only legal problem that may have hindered this release [and this is pure speclulation on my part] Is It possible the restoration could have been done without Warners consent ? The refusal of Warner Bros to screen the restored print seems strange,why would they do this especially If they've got a DVD lined up for release pending the resolution of 'legal issues' !

I was hoping we would've now had a definitive answer from Ken Russell,but he did, once again state that Warner Bros has never liked the film.Don I'm not going to go around in circles on this one, I agree with what Marc Edward Heuck posted, your friend could well have been misinformed about this, doesn't mean he's lying, but maybe the company are misinforming him about the situation.However a small glimmer of hope is the release of the Spanish DVD, let's wait and see how complete It is, you'll know If Warner still has a problem with this film If it no longer contains the special features and restoration listed for the UK DVD.

Adrian J.
08-01-2010, 11:57 AM
As for a 111 min. UK print, I thought the longer (longest?) cut didn't exist in 35mm form.

*edit* Just found a comment on a forum from someone who was in attendence at the 2004 NFT screening;

quote; 'The directors cut of the Devils recieved its world premiere yesterday at the NFT in London. The excised footage (rape of Christ etc) has been re-inserted by the original editor with guidance from Ken Russell and it was this version of the film that was projected from a high-definition video recording.'

http://forums.thedigitalfix.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=328212

Some more information on cut scenes and what was [and wasn't included] in the restoration,including one jaw dropping scene,that would've been nearly as controversial as the 'Rape Of Christ' scene !

http://www.iainfisher.com/dis/index.php?topic=10538.0

Is It true that the version screened at the 'Lincoln Center' screening was the heavily censored [reframed to remove pubic hair] US theatrical version.Some interesting comments about why this version was screened at Montreal:

http://www.criterionforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7686&start=75

quote; 'Just to give you an idea of how difficult Warner Bros. is making it to see this film.At the Fantasia Film Festival currently happening in Montreal, the organizers presented a lifetime achievement award to Ken Russell along with a screening of "The Devils." Prior to the screening, one of the organizers recounted how the screening almost didn't happen. The original plan by the organizers was to import a 35mm print from France, but Warner Bros. said they wouldn't allow it and that any print screened had to be from Canada. Unfortunately, the only print in Canada is incredibly damaged and nearly faded to red. The organizers then asked Warner Bros. if they could have a print from the U.S. shipped. WB again said no, and that the print shown had to be the "Canadian theatrical version" (which is the same as the US, but WB insisted they were different). Finally, after begging and have others call on their behalf, WB finally agreed to send a video master to screen --- but not of the restored version, it was the theatrical cut.So yeah, don't hold your breath for this appear uncut on DVD anytime soon.'

Adrian J.
08-01-2010, 02:57 PM
Hmmm... I seem to recall taking note that she DIDN'T - that's why I was thinking she wasn't keen on it... but I could well be mistaken.

Sorry to correct you Troy, but I've just rewatched the 'Hell On Earth' documentary and indeed Ms Redgrave does appear and seems genuinely proud of the film.

Troy Howarth
08-01-2010, 09:35 PM
That's good to know - I don't know why i thought she wasn't involved, but I'm happy to stand corrected!

Chuk H
08-02-2010, 07:23 PM
Still no DVD of THE MUSIC LOVERS, SAVAGE MESSIAH and WHORE, among others. MAHLER is hopelessly OOP, as is SALOME'S LAST DANCE. Russell is criminally neglected on DVD.

Co-fucking-signed

Adrian J.
08-02-2010, 07:55 PM
It would be nice If we could get a timeline of the various events that have happend over the last 10 years,If any of you can help with dates [one or two dates I'm not 100% sure of ,such as the original UK DVD release which I believe was to have been in 2007, but may have been earlier] or other notable events please feel free to contribute;

-'Hell On Earth' documentary screened [ch 4 UK] 2002

-'The Devils' restored video restoration screened at NFT,London Nov 2004.

-Ken Russell records commentary for the UK DVD release [sometime in 2004,after the NFT screening]

-'The Devils' restored UK and US Dvd annouced [200?] and listed on UK etailer sites such as Play.com.Listed extras included a commentary w/Russell and a longer cut of the 'Hell On Earth' doc

-Release cancelled

-Angel Digital bootleg DVD released [sometime in 2005]

-Restored version premiered at the Brussels International Festival of Fantasy Film in March 2006.

-Restored version screened at the University of Southampton April 25, 2007 [Ken Russell and Mark Kermode in attendance]

-"DVDActive.com announced on February 28, 2008 that The Devils would finally be released on DVD by Warner Home Video in the U.S. on May 20, 2008, in the uncut (111 minutes) version, but without additional material. However, a day later, a DVDActive forum post asserted that the release had been dropped from Warner's schedule."
US release thought to be fake [see both links bellow],although Don May JR's contact at Warner claims It to be genuine.Here's a link to what Tim Lucas had to say about this release 29th Feb 2008] ;

http://videowatchdog.blogspot.com/2008_02_24_archive.html

http://www.dvdactive.com/news/releases/the-devils.html

*HOWEVER If you look at the colour promotional still on the Wikipedia site,this scene DOES occur,It's Sister Jeanne's hallucination sequence imagining Grandier as Christ,thus explaining the Arabs and Romans in the background*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devils_(film)

-Mark Kermode's video blog [Aug 2008] claiming that Warner US has 'got cold feet' about this release and are preventing It from being released.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/markkermode/2008/08/opinion_the_devils_across_the.html

-Don May JR [Synapse Films] tries to licence the film for a US DVD release,but is told 'Warner doesn't sublicense their titles to outside companies and likes to keep everything "in house".' [This takes part sometime in 2008 according to Don's post]
http://www.avmaniacs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45864

-online petition is launched
http://www.petitiononline.com/Grandier/petition.html

-Roy Baird [associate producer] of the film passes away [26th April 2010]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obit...Roy-Baird.html

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0047919/

-Screened at the Fantasia Film Festival [Warner Bros very uncooperative]
Just to give you an idea of how difficult Warner Bros. is making it to see this film.At the Fantasia Film Festival currently happening in Montreal, the organizers presented a lifetime achievement award to Ken Russell along with a screening of "The Devils." Prior to the screening, one of the organizers recounted how the screening almost didn't happen. The original plan by the organizers was to import a 35mm print from France, but Warner Bros. said they wouldn't allow it and that any print screened had to be from Canada. Unfortunately, the only print in Canada is incredibly damaged and nearly faded to red. The organizers then asked Warner Bros. if they could have a print from the U.S. shipped. WB again said no, and that the print shown had to be the "Canadian theatrical version" (which is the same as the US, but WB insisted they were different). Finally, after begging and have others call on their behalf, WB finally agreed to send a video master to screen --- but not of the restored version, it was the theatrical cut.So yeah, don't hold your breath for this appear uncut on DVD anytime soon.
http://www.criterionforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7686&start=75

-Screening at Lincoln center is attended by Ken Russell and Vannessa Redgrave [Warner Bros do not allow the advertised 111 min restored version to be screened,instead the US theatrical print Is shown]
http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2010/07/slight_russsell.php

-'The Devils' available as an I-Tunes download [June 2010] [UK theatrical version NOT the restored version,but in It's 2.35:1 widescreen ratio for the first time,so this MUST have come from Warner Bros]

-'The Devils' taken down from I-Tunes in a matter of days

-Spanish DVD advertised by various Spanish etailers [July 2010] [details not confirmed]

Marc Edward Heuck
08-02-2010, 09:24 PM
Adrian, you're pretty much on the ball. The only quibble is that WB, until the Shout Factory release of "MAX HEADROOM" and "77 SUNSET STRIP" this year, were true to their stated policy of not sublicensing their films in the U.S. Films from the New Line and Morgan Creek libraries that appeared on Criterion and Image occurred because at the time, the companies were not fully owned by WB; Morgan Creek licensed DEAD RINGERS before they moved from Fox to WB, and New Line Cinema was initially an autonomous company at Time Warner that could do what they wanted without reporting to WB, whereas now they are fused into WB and are just an imprint with no staff. Any other films that were released by WB in the past that poppped up on other labels was because WB lost their rights.

Adrian J.
08-03-2010, 06:39 AM
Adrian, you're pretty much on the ball. The only quibble is that WB, until the Shout Factory release of "MAX HEADROOM" and "77 SUNSET STRIP" this year, were true to their stated policy of not sublicensing their films in the U.S. Films from the New Line and Morgan Creek libraries that appeared on Criterion and Image occurred because at the time, the companies were not fully owned by WB; Morgan Creek licensed DEAD RINGERS before they moved from Fox to WB, and New Line Cinema was initially an autonomous company at Time Warner that could do what they wanted without reporting to WB, whereas now they are fused into WB and are just an imprint with no staff. Any other films that were released by WB in the past that poppped up on other labels was because WB lost their rights.

Thanks for the info Marc, I've edited the Post, I seem to recall Warner Bros sublicensing the Directors Cut of Natural Born Killers, was that film not owned wholly by Warner, I know in the UK you could buy the cut theatrical version on dvd by Warner and the Directors Cut on a different label [VCI I believe],again like you pointed out It could well be a case that Warner doesn't own the directors cut.
In the course of my digging for information regarding 'The Devils' I came across some sad news, an obituary for Roy Baird [associate producer] of the film, what an incredible filmography the man had !

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/culture-obituaries/film-obituaries/7773100/Roy-Baird.html

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0047919/

he passed away in April this year and was interviewed in the 'Hell On Earth' documentary.I don't think his passing has anything to do with the current problems surrounding the film, as these problems existed a long time before, and he was happy to participate in the documentary.
Thanks for the feedback on the timeline, I want to keep It as factual as possible, I've resisted the temptation to include things such as the UK Sky ARTS showing of the directors cut [It was advertised in broadcast magazine but ,SKY ARTS say they never had the rights to show It in the first place,a very strange mistake for a magazine to make,but there's no evidence of Warner meddling].

http://www.iainfisher.com/dis/index.php?topic=10538.0

Troy Howarth
08-03-2010, 08:19 AM
Unless I'm mistaken, the DC of Natural Born Killers was handled by a WB subsidiary branch.

Adrian J.
08-03-2010, 09:41 AM
Unless I'm mistaken, the DC of Natural Born Killers was handled by a WB subsidiary branch.

Thanks for that Troy,you could well be right, however I did find this

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Disc_Re-Issues/Disc_Announcements/Warner_Double_Dips_with_Natural_Born_Killers_Direc tors_Cut_Blu-ray/2792

It does say In the article 'the uncut version had previously only been issued through independent means' could still of been a WB subsidiary though.

The UK DVD came out via Optimum [not VCI as I previously thought,just had a look at my dvd] and the reissue via 'Cinema Club'.
The US LD box set came out via Pioneer video
US Dir Cut DVD [1st release] came out via Lions Gate [not sure If WB controls that company ?]

Jonathan H.
08-03-2010, 11:36 AM
Unless I'm mistaken, the DC of Natural Born Killers was handled by a WB subsidiary branch.

Initially, the Director's Cut was licensed in the States to labels such as Vidmark, Trimark (later Lions Gate) when WB was not putting out much Unrated or X-rated fare out on home video. It seems they've changed policy as they have released things like NATURAL BORN KILLERS DIRECTOR'S CUT and the unrated EYES WIDE SHUT on Blu-ray and DVD themselves.

Adrian J.
08-03-2010, 01:02 PM
Initially, the Director's Cut was licensed in the States to labels such as Vidmark, Trimark (later Lions Gate) when WB was not putting out much Unrated or X-rated fare out on home video. It seems they've changed policy as they have released things like NATURAL BORN KILLERS DIRECTOR'S CUT and the unrated EYES WIDE SHUT on Blu-ray and DVD themselves.

Thanks for the info Jonathan, I think that clears that one up.
Got some more info for the timeline from Mark GW on lovelockandload.net regarding the originally announced UK DVD of 'The Devils' [not sure If the US one was announced at this point].I'm 99.9% sure the UK preorder in 2003 was listed for over 6 months, does anyone know approx when It was cancelled.I'll post the updated timeline next.

Adrian J.
08-03-2010, 01:03 PM
It would be nice If we could get a timeline of the various events that have happend over the last 10 years,If any of you can help with dates or other notable events please feel free to contribute;

-'Hell On Earth' documentary screened [ch 4 UK] 2002
http://www.film4.com/features/article/footnotes-to-apos-hell-on-earth-apos

-Ken Russell records commentary for the upcoming UK DVD release [sometime in 2003]

-'The Devils' restored [?] UK and US [?] Dvd announced [Release date July 2003] listed as a preorder on UK etailer sites such as Play.com.Listed extras included a commentary w/Russell and a longer cut of the 'Hell On Earth' doc

This info from Mark GW at lovelockandload.net;
'I seem to remember that Play had a Special Edition DVD with a commentary and the HELL ON EARTH documentary up for pre-order not long after it was shown on Channel 4. This discussion about it in the DVD Times forums at the time confirms it was on pre-order during 2003 with a scheduled release for July that year:
http://forums.thedigitalfix.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=201663

-'The Devils' restored video restoration screened at NFT,London Nov 2004.[Ken Russell and Mark Kermode in attendance]

-DVD Release cancelled [Can anyone supply a date]

-Angel Digital bootleg DVD released [sometime in 2005]

-Restored version premiered at the Brussels International Festival of Fantasy Film in March 2006.

-Restored version screened at the University of Southampton April 25, 2007 [Ken Russell and Mark Kermode in attendance]

-"DVDActive.com announced on February 28, 2008 that The Devils would finally be released on DVD by Warner Home Video in the U.S. on May 20, 2008, in the uncut (111 minutes) version, but without additional material. However, a day later, a DVDActive forum post asserted that the release had been dropped from Warner's schedule."
US release thought to be fake [see both links bellow],although Don May JR's contact at Warner claims It to be genuine.Here's a link to what Tim Lucas had to say about this release 29th Feb 2008] ;
http://videowatchdog.blogspot.com/2008_02_24_archive.html

http://www.dvdactive.com/news/releases/the-devils.html

***edit Looks like I might be wrong about this, If you look at the colour promotional still on the Wikipedia site,this scene DOES occur,It's Sister Jeanne's hallucination sequence imagining Grandier as Christ,thus explaining the Arabs and Romans in the background***
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devils_(film)

http://thumbnails30.imagebam.com/9144/3cb49e91432527.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/3cb49e91432527)

http://thumbnails14.imagebam.com/9144/a8eb2b91432529.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/a8eb2b91432529)

http://thumbnails10.imagebam.com/9144/94ea6691433396.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/94ea6691433396)

-Mark Kermode's video blog [Aug 2008] claims that Warner US has 'got cold feet' about this release and are preventing It from being released.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/markkermode/2008/08/opinion_the_devils_across_the.html

-Don May JR [Synapse Films] tries to licence the film for a US DVD release,but is told 'Warner doesn't sublicense their titles to outside companies and likes to keep everything "in house".' [This takes part sometime in 2008 according to Don's post]
http://www.avmaniacs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45864

-online petition is launched
http://www.petitiononline.com/Grandier/petition.html

-Roy Baird [associate producer] of the film passes away [26th April 2010]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/culture-obituaries/film-obituaries/7773100/Roy-Baird.html

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0047919/

-Screened at the Fantasia Film Festival [July 2010] [Warner Bros very uncooperative]
Just to give you an idea of how difficult Warner Bros. is making it to see this film.At the Fantasia Film Festival currently happening in Montreal, the organizers presented a lifetime achievement award to Ken Russell along with a screening of "The Devils." Prior to the screening, one of the organizers recounted how the screening almost didn't happen. The original plan by the organizers was to import a 35mm print from France, but Warner Bros. said they wouldn't allow it and that any print screened had to be from Canada. Unfortunately, the only print in Canada is incredibly damaged and nearly faded to red. The organizers then asked Warner Bros. if they could have a print from the U.S. shipped. WB again said no, and that the print shown had to be the "Canadian theatrical version" (which is the same as the US, but WB insisted they were different). Finally, after begging and have others call on their behalf, WB finally agreed to send a video master to screen --- but not of the restored version, it was the theatrical cut.So yeah, don't hold your breath for this appear uncut on DVD anytime soon.
http://www.criterionforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=294702

-'The Devils' available as an I-Tunes download [June 2010] [UK theatrical version NOT the restored version,but in It's 2.35:1 widescreen ratio for the first time,so this MUST have come from Warner Bros]
http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2010/06/devils_on_my_ph.php

-'The Devils' taken down from I-Tunes in a matter of days

-Screening at Lincoln center,NY [30th July 2010] is attended by Ken Russell and Vanessa Redgrave [Warner Bros do not allow the advertised 111 min restored version to be screened,instead the US theatrical print Is shown]
http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2010/07/slight_russsell.php

-Spanish DVD advertised by various Spanish etailers [July 2010] [details not confirmed]
available from these Spanish e-vendors;
http://www.starscafe.com/en/movie/the-devils-spanish.aspx
http://www.dvdgo.com/dvd-los-demonios-dvd/1772203/154275

Jonathan H.
08-03-2010, 03:13 PM
The Lincoln Center event should be moved to the most recent spot OR just before note about the Spanish DVD. The iTunes appearance was over a month before the Lincoln Center screening.


It would be nice If we could get a timeline of the various events that have happend over the last 10 years,If any of you can help with dates or other notable events please feel free to contribute;

-'Hell On Earth' documentary screened [ch 4 UK] 2002

-Ken Russell records commentary for the upcoming UK DVD release [sometime in 2003]

-'The Devils' restored [?] UK and US [?] Dvd announced [Release date July 2003] listed as a preorder on UK etailer sites such as Play.com.Listed extras included a commentary w/Russell and a longer cut of the 'Hell On Earth' doc

This info from Mark GW at lovelockandload.net

'I seem to remember that Play had a Special Edition DVD with a commentary and the HELL ON EARTH documentary up for pre-order not long after it was shown on Channel 4. This discussion about it in the DVD Times forums at the time confirms it was on pre-order during 2003 with a scheduled release for July that year:

http://forums.thedigitalfix.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=201663

-'The Devils' restored video restoration screened at NFT,London Nov 2004.[Ken Russell and Mark Kermode in attendance]

-DVD Release cancelled [Can anyone supply a date]

-Angel Digital bootleg DVD released [sometime in 2005]

-Restored version premiered at the Brussels International Festival of Fantasy Film in March 2006.

-Restored version screened at the University of Southampton April 25, 2007 [Ken Russell and Mark Kermode in attendance]

-"DVDActive.com announced on February 28, 2008 that The Devils would finally be released on DVD by Warner Home Video in the U.S. on May 20, 2008, in the uncut (111 minutes) version, but without additional material. However, a day later, a DVDActive forum post asserted that the release had been dropped from Warner's schedule."
US release thought to be fake [see both links bellow],although Don May JR's contact at Warner claims It to be genuine.Here's a link to what Tim Lucas had to say about this release 29th Feb 2008] ;

http://videowatchdog.blogspot.com/20...4_archive.html

http://www.dvdactive.com/news/releases/the-devils.html

-Mark Kermode's video blog [Aug 2008] claims that Warner US has 'got cold feet' about this release and are preventing It from being released.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/markkermo...cross_the.html

-Don May JR [Synapse Films] tries to licence the film for a US DVD release,but is told 'Warner doesn't sublicense their titles to outside companies and likes to keep everything "in house".' [This takes part sometime in 2008 according to Don's post]
http://www.avmaniacs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45864

-online petition is launched
http://www.petitiononline.com/Grandier/petition.html

-Roy Baird [associate producer] of the film passes away [26th April 2010]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obit...Roy-Baird.html

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0047919/

-Screened at the Fantasia Film Festival [Warner Bros very uncooperative]
Just to give you an idea of how difficult Warner Bros. is making it to see this film.At the Fantasia Film Festival currently happening in Montreal, the organizers presented a lifetime achievement award to Ken Russell along with a screening of "The Devils." Prior to the screening, one of the organizers recounted how the screening almost didn't happen. The original plan by the organizers was to import a 35mm print from France, but Warner Bros. said they wouldn't allow it and that any print screened had to be from Canada. Unfortunately, the only print in Canada is incredibly damaged and nearly faded to red. The organizers then asked Warner Bros. if they could have a print from the U.S. shipped. WB again said no, and that the print shown had to be the "Canadian theatrical version" (which is the same as the US, but WB insisted they were different). Finally, after begging and have others call on their behalf, WB finally agreed to send a video master to screen --- but not of the restored version, it was the theatrical cut.So yeah, don't hold your breath for this appear uncut on DVD anytime soon.
http://www.criterionforum.org/forum/...=7686&start=75

-Screening at Lincoln center is attended by Ken Russell and Vanessa Redgrave [Warner Bros do not allow the advertised 111 min restored version to be screened,instead the US theatrical print Is shown]
http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2010/...t_russsell.php

-'The Devils' available as an I-Tunes download [June 2010] [UK theatrical version NOT the restored version,but in It's 2.35:1 widescreen ratio for the first time,so this MUST have come from Warner Bros]

-'The Devils' taken down from I-Tunes in a matter of days

-Spanish DVD advertised by various Spanish etailers [July 2010] [details not confirmed]

Grant W
08-03-2010, 04:12 PM
I read recently that WB wouldn't allow the BFI to sub-license the 1958 Dracula for a special edition either. They should rename themselves The Warner Pricks.

Adrian J.
08-03-2010, 04:56 PM
The Lincoln Center event should be moved to the most recent spot OR just before note about the Spanish DVD. The iTunes appearance was over a month before the Lincoln Center screening.

Noted and corrected,a few more links added [fixed in one or two cases] and links for the Spanish DVD should anyone to pick It up.You just know someone's gonna do a fanedit of this film If the more notorious sequences aren't included !

Werner Von Wallenrod
08-03-2010, 11:28 PM
I'm one of the people who pre-ordered the Spanish DVD.

If I get it before others get a chance to report on how complete the cut is... What's one obvious scene/shot, and approximate time it appears in the film, I could check for? That way, when it arrives, I'll look for that right away and let everybody know ASAP.

Adrian J.
08-04-2010, 05:13 AM
I'm one of the people who pre-ordered the Spanish DVD.

If I get it before others get a chance to report on how complete the cut is... What's one obvious scene/shot, and approximate time it appears in the film, I could check for? That way, when it arrives, I'll look for that right away and let everybody know ASAP.

Thanks for that,here's what to look for; Running time in PAL for the BBFC aproved UK theatrical cut should be 106m 41s [this version was submited to the BBFC in 1997 for video release and was the longest available until the Angel Digital bootleg ,which added two scenes from the Hell On Earth doc]

http://www.bbfc.co.uk/BVF023919

*Missing from the BBFC version 'Mark Kermode recovered scenes-Rape Of Christ/Sister Jeanne with bone + some others shown briefly in the doc.Also missing is footage from the torture scenes and the notorious sh*t on the altar,approx 89 secs of BBFC cuts according to Mark Kermode*

Here's some info from Wayne at iainfisher.com;

http://www.iainfisher.com/dis/index.php?topic=10538.0

QUOTE;'I believe they found everything that was missing bar the tiny trims. The tiny trims made to the film were very likely binned at the time as they were so slight that reintegrating them into a version of the film at a later time would have been too messy to do and even if achieved would have looked awful. The main trims i can think of were to the leg-breaking of Grandier. This sequence was cut, then trimmed some more...trimmed some more...and some more...literally removing frames of film at one point. So, chances of ever seeing that footage materialise is very likely beyond all hope now...
The only other footage i can recall that was cut that was not mentioned in the documentary as being found in that can of footage was the defecation on the altar during the "public exorcism". There was footage cut that showed the "sh*t on the altar" as Russell termed it and i am guessing that this was not dwelled upon but rather shown for a second or two at the very most. If that was the case, then that would explain why that cut has not been spoken of as available for restoration amongst the found footage as it would no doubt have suffered a similar fate to the near-subliminal trims the Grandier leg-breaking endured. We are talking maybe one second of "sh*t on the altar" and a second or 2 of Grandier's legs being pulped (which, as i say, was demolished almost frame-by-frame)...
But, like you point out, the majority of the cut footage has been found now and is ripe for restoration. The missing few seconds will not really cause much grief amongst fans once they see a restored version materialise, but it IS sad that these tiny fragments are probably lost to time now and that, somewhat frustratingly, Russell's film will never be QUITE the full original vision!
What we have officially available on video (UK edition at least) is around 95% complete. A restoration using the found footage will ensure we get a 99.9% restored edit that will be, for most intents and purposes, the "director's cut" that Russell and all of us have been wanting to see for so long...'



The US VHS/LD release suffered from further cuts including reframing sequences to remove pubic hair [never seen this version,that must have been a quite a job, as there's lots on display ! So If anyone who's got this version can give further details]

Just to complicate matters further the version on iTunes runs just over 108 mins, has anyone compared the torture sequences to the 97 BBFC aproved version, It's the same as the Angel Digital DVD [-the recovered Kermode scenes],Just in case, although highly unlikely as they are more than likely lost forever !

If somehow a miracle was to happen and the 'Rape Of Christ' sequence was also included, here's what the scene look like;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG7uJrAm0NE&feature=related

You may have to sign in to YouTube to watch this clip It starts at the 5min 37sec point.*FOR VIEWERS OVER 18 ONLY,If the sight of naked nuns upsets you :eek:*

Marc Edward Heuck
08-04-2010, 06:43 AM
Initially, the Director's Cut was licensed in the States to labels such as Vidmark, Trimark (later Lions Gate) when WB was not putting out much Unrated or X-rated fare out on home video. It seems they've changed policy as they have released things like NATURAL BORN KILLERS DIRECTOR'S CUT and the unrated EYES WIDE SHUT on Blu-ray and DVD themselves.

In the case of NATURAL BORN KILLERS, the movie had three financial partners: WB, Canal+, and Arnon Milchan's Regency Enterprises. So when WB initially cancelled their planned director's cut release, Regency exercised their power (with WB and Canal+'s consent) as a part owner of the movie to take that version to Trimark (and their successor Lionsgate) for a stretch of so many years, and to remove all references to WB on those releases except where absolutely necessary. That deal expired, heads are slightly cooler at the water tower, and now WB reissued the DC.

Jonathan H.
08-05-2010, 06:22 PM
Someone left this comment on Jeffrey Wells' site:

"I have it on good authority that Spain went ahead and did this without WHV knowing in the US. There is a closet campaign within WHV to get this released - but the content is just too much for certain high-level managment types to swallow, even nearly 40 years after the original movie."

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2010/07/okay_5.php

If even SOME of these stories about WB running scared from this film, are true, it's truly absurd...in any event, I ordered the DVD from Spain several days ago and am just hoping that it's not 4:3 letterbox as has been reported in some places. If it's got added footage, that's just gravy to me.

Marcel H.
08-05-2010, 07:05 PM
If even SOME of these stories about WB running scared from this film, are true, it's truly absurd...in any event, I ordered the DVD from Spain several days ago and am just hoping that it's not 4:3 letterbox as has been reported in some places. If it's got added footage, that's just gravy to me.


A member of the German cinefacts forum got the DVD. He states, the Spanish DVD is missing the Rape of Christ footage.
It's a non-anamorphic 2.35:1 version, solid a/v quality. English and Spanish audio is mono. No bonus features.

Troy Howarth
08-05-2010, 07:42 PM
Non anamorphic... that's a bummer - still, at least it's the full scope ratio.

Jonathan H.
08-05-2010, 08:46 PM
A member of the German cinefacts forum got the DVD. He states, the Spanish DVD is missing the Rape of Christ footage.
It's a non-anamorphic 2.35:1 version, solid a/v quality. English and Spanish audio is mono. No bonus features.

Thanks for the update. That's unfortunate. Sounds like I'll be putting this one up for sale before I crack the shrink-wrap.

Ian Miller
08-06-2010, 05:21 AM
Just received the Euro Cult boot in the mail today, mostly because it was inexpensive and I wanted the doc and the composite version, in case nothing better comes along.

Adrian J.
08-06-2010, 10:37 AM
This was passed on by Mark G.W on lovelockandload.com and It's really not good news, running time apparently is a little over 103 mins [in PAL] so this is more than likely the US theatrical print,UK theatrical print runs 106mins 41sec in PAL [this was used for the Maverick Directors collection release on VHS in 1997],so on the face of this the Angel Digital bootleg is still the one to own as a fanedit from a cut reframed print would be pointless, so much for those 'legal issues' ! ;

From the Savage Messiah: Ken Russell forum:

http://iainfisher.com/dis/index.php?PHPSESSID=979d2df76235b2a92b25ac57232c0b a1&topic=11456.0

"I got it. It arrived today.

First things first. The rape of Christ sequence is missing. Sadly. Sad
However the picture is in rather fine quality despite the fact there's no 16:9 enhancement. But we do get the theatrical aspect ratio on this disc.
You can choose the English or Spanish language track and threre are removable spanish subtitles included. No extras. Not even a theatrical trailer."

"Ah, now I know. The spanish DVD is slightly longer than 103 minutes. And it's a PAL DVD."

At least it's fully scoped. No clear yet how complete the print is yet. However, the BBFC lists the abomination that is the 1988 video release (US edit) as 103m 40s (the later release as part of the Maverick Directors collection which is the one currently shown on UK TV has a listed runtime of 106m 41s).

So it looks like it could be the heavily cut US version.

Troy Howarth
08-06-2010, 11:52 AM
Thanks for the update. That's unfortunate. Sounds like I'll be putting this one up for sale before I crack the shrink-wrap.

I may be interested in taking it off your hands, if you don't want it - PM me. :)

John G.
08-06-2010, 12:54 PM
And thus the wait for a definitive release of THE DEVILS on DVD continues...

Werner Von Wallenrod
09-16-2010, 03:20 AM
I have to say, while the Luminous boot has it all over the WB disc in terms of extras (and I believe inserted scenes?), WB certainly trumps it in quality. Check out these screen grabs I took, just of the opening logo... huge difference:
http://wernervonwallenrod.com/devilswb11.jpg
http://wernervonwallenrod.com/devilswb2.jpg

Troy Howarth
09-16-2010, 09:42 AM
Yeah, I'm sure the quality is better - if it were uncut, the lack of extras wouldn't bother me...

Fred Anderson
09-16-2010, 09:46 AM
I'm very happy to own the first legal dvd of this one - I still have the bootleg of course :)

Troy Howarth
09-16-2010, 09:49 AM
I will probably pick it up, too... I just wish the damn thing were uncut.

Fred Anderson
09-16-2010, 10:23 AM
I will probably pick it up, too... I just wish the damn thing were uncut.

Amen to that.

John G.
09-16-2010, 10:35 AM
The only thing holding me back (aside from it being uncut, of course) is the fact that it's not anamorphic, which is a big deal since the transfer is essentially the only selling point with this edition.

Troy Howarth
09-16-2010, 10:39 AM
Oh it's not even anamorphic? Screw it, then...

John G.
09-16-2010, 11:32 AM
This must be the first time I've convinced you of anything, Troy. :D

Troy Howarth
09-16-2010, 11:34 AM
I'm not convinced you're right on that point.

Jonathan H.
09-16-2010, 01:29 PM
Oh it's not even anamorphic? Screw it, then...

A fact you and I both discussed about a month ago on this thread, Troy. :D Take a look...

This was why I ultimately cancelled my order with the Spanish DVD outlet selling the disc.

Troy Howarth
09-16-2010, 01:42 PM
Which means, then, that it was you instead of Gargo that REALLY taked me out of buying it. This is good. :D

Jonathan H.
09-16-2010, 02:05 PM
Which means, then, that it was you instead of Gargo that REALLY taked me out of buying it. This is good. :D

You are most welcome, sir.

Eric B
10-02-2010, 02:36 AM
I ran across this tidbit (http://www.criterionforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=310529#p310529) over at criterionforum.org. Scroll down to the post that begins "I guess God does exist." Potential good news for a future release of "The Devils"?

John G.
04-05-2011, 05:03 PM
Saw this today... UK theater airing the director's cut... an official release on the horizon?

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2_XzhAUchh8?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2_XzhAUchh8?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

Wayne Schmidt
04-05-2011, 05:28 PM
"The Rape of Christ sequence is the best thing I've ever done."

Ah, Ken . . . . . don't ever change. :p