View Full Version : The Most Profound Thread Of All Time

Paul A J Lewis
01-28-2007, 03:47 PM
I believe our actions are dictated by the values instilled in us, from a young age, by our environment: through a socialisation process that encompasses the family, the media, education and any and all number of factors. Our values dictate our behaviour, although an element of cognition comes into play and we have the ability to overturn or challenge the values instilled in us during our youth, and replace them with new values and ideas.

However, I don't believe in fate :D

John G.
01-28-2007, 03:52 PM
do you believe everything happens for a reason?
No... just look at the existence of this thread. ;)

Paul A J Lewis
01-28-2007, 03:55 PM
I wanted to share this, because I find it provocative:

"Fatalism is the view that human deliberation and actions are pointless and ineffectual in determining events, because whatever will be will be.

One ancient argument, called the idle argument, went like this:

1. If it is fated for you to recover from your illness, then you will recover whether you call a doctor or not.
2. Likewise, if you are fated not to recover, you will not do so even if you call a doctor.
3. So, calling a doctor makes no difference.

Arguments like the above are usually rejected even by causal determinists, who may say that it may be determined that only a doctor can cure you. There are other examples that show clearly that human deliberation makes a big difference - a chess player who deliberates should usually be able to defeat one of equal strength who is only allowed one second per move.

Determinism should therefore not be mistaken for fatalism. Although determinists would accept that the future is, in some sense, set, they accept human actions as factors that will cause the future to take the shape that it will - even though those human actions are themselves determined; if they had been different, the future would also be different.

Arguments for fatalism, although rarely accepted, do have a bearing on discussions about the nature of truth. The logical argument for fatalism says that, if there will be a sea battle tomorrow, and someone says "there will be a sea battle tomorrow" then that sentence is true, even before the sea battle occurs. But given that the sentence is true, the sea battle could not fail to take place. This argument can be rejected by denying that predictions about the future have to be true or false when they are made - ie, rejecting bivalence for sentences about the future, though this is controversial."

Which are you, Paul? :D
Neither a fatalist nor a determinist; but someone who accepts that there is an element of truth to the determinist point-of-view.

Paul A J Lewis
01-28-2007, 03:58 PM
Is this inspired by LOST, by any chance, Aaron? Locke (the philosopher, not the character in the show) believed in free will. However, Locke also took into account the idea that our freedom to choose is limited by the array of choices that are available to us, and so to some extent his position adopted an element of determinism.

Christoffer S
01-28-2007, 04:03 PM
I dont believe in anything. Everything is bullshit.

Paul A J Lewis
01-28-2007, 04:04 PM
I've always excepted that for every action, there must be a reaction. What goes up must come down, etc. I also realize that nothing can be put into motion that doesn't have something behind it to move it.

Therefore, what esentially set things in motion, and what can be the first if something had to come before it (essentially, causing it)? There is another argument that human actions come from within - there is no external action that causes us to move and set something else in motion. But what if this is what makes us move? I agree that how we are brought up and raised sets the tone for a lot of what is to come, but who is to say that it wasn't determined how one would be brought up and raised?
Actions arise from consciousness. But what is consciousness? Is it simply a series of electrochemical reactions in the brain, an awareness of self and surroundings stimulated by the fabric of the muscle of our brain, or is it something more than that? If we are not conscious of an event or of our actions, does that event continue to exist?

Paul A J Lewis
01-28-2007, 04:05 PM
I dont believe in anything. Everything is bullshit.
A, a nihilist. But in believing in nothing, you are in effect believing in something: the belief in nothing :D

Christoffer S
01-28-2007, 04:10 PM
No i actully think that is complete BS aswell.

Paul A J Lewis
01-28-2007, 04:11 PM
No i actully think that is complete BS aswell.
Good comeback :D

Martin N
01-28-2007, 04:14 PM
This shit is deep.

Alyss N.
01-28-2007, 04:25 PM
Shut up... all of you.