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View Full Version : Prog Rock Battle: Round 4 (this one's for Tolchie)



Mike Brown
01-19-2007, 11:55 AM
Blame William R. and Donnie G. for this one. :D

William R.
01-19-2007, 12:02 PM
No contest. Floyd unleash their proggy progishness with reckless abandon on albums full of progtastic prog cuts. Atom Heart Mother, Meddle, the proglandish Ummagumma and the proglicious Animals. And lest we forget the progdidliumptious Dark Side of the Moon. I'm told it was originally going to be called The Prog Side of the Moon, but signals got crossed.

Jonathan Douglas
01-19-2007, 12:02 PM
Genesis, definitely. I think when prog fans choose, they either love or hate the bands, and I don't like PF much.

Mike Brown
01-19-2007, 12:05 PM
I love 'em both dearly, but I listen to Genesis more these days.

mark t
01-19-2007, 12:06 PM
If i were to class pink floyd as prog (fuck!), i would definitely pick them over Genesis. I have a little respect for Gabriel-era Genesis...it ends there. :)

Mike Brown
01-19-2007, 12:06 PM
No contest. Floyd unleash their proggy progishness with reckless abandon on albums full of progtastic prog cuts. Atom Heart Mother, Meddle, the proglandish Ummagumma and the proglicious Animals. And lest we forget the progdidliumptious Dark Side of the Moon. I'm told it was originally going to be called The Prog Side of the Moon, but signals got crossed.

Uh, you need to vote dude. ;)

Don Guarisco
01-19-2007, 12:10 PM
My God. Mike, I didn't think you'd go through with this pairing, at least until the final rounds... man, this is like asking a parent to choose a favorite child.

But ultimately, I have to say, Pink Floyd was ultimately truer to the prog mandate than Genesis, who really abandoned any traces of progginess after ABACAB (keep in mind this is coming from a guy who loves 90% of the material from A TRICK OF THE TAIL thru ABACAB). Even in their Gilmour-led days, Floyd stayed truer to their classic sound than Genesis did to theirs.



No contest. Floyd unleash their proggy progishness with reckless abandon on albums full of progtastic prog cuts. Atom Heart Mother, Meddle, the proglandish Ummagumma and the proglicious Animals. And lest we forget the progdidliumptious Dark Side of the Moon. I'm told it was originally going to be called The Prog Side of the Moon, but signals got crossed.

You are my hero. At least for today.

Randy Thomas G
01-19-2007, 12:12 PM
Like all music snobs I love Syd Barrett era Floyd, and Meddle and Ummagumma are both great post-Barrrett records. Can't say I care too much for the later stuff, I was always a little unimpressed with Dark Side of the Moon, but could never admit it to my fellow stoners when I was teenager.

Genesis, I like some of the early tunes with Gabriel but they definitely degenerated into a pretty terrible pop band by the mid 80s.

So it's Floyd all the way for me.

Bill Pissott
01-19-2007, 12:12 PM
If i were to class pink floyd as prog (fuck!), i would definitely pick them over Genesis. I have a little respect for Gabriel-era Genesis...it ends there. :)


I'm surprised you gave in on this one T :)

Mike Brown
01-19-2007, 12:13 PM
My God. Mike, I didn't think you'd go through with this pairing, at least until the final rounds... man, this is like asking a parent to choose a favorite child.

I know. I've blown the whole damn thing!

John G.
01-19-2007, 12:19 PM
Genesis... even on later albums there were traces of their prog past, such as epics like Fading Lights, Domino, and Home By the Sea/Second Home By the Sea. At their peak, Genesis were absolutely unstoppable... the string of albums from Trick of the Tail to Duke is my favorite era. I love Pink Floyd, but they were pretty damn inconsistant in the early days, with soundtrack LPs that don't hold a candle to brilliant stuff like Animals.

Love both bands, but it's gotta be Genesis.

Scott Ruhl
01-19-2007, 12:28 PM
When I was younger I was more of a Genesis kid, it's all I owned. If I wanted to play Super Nintendo I had to go to a friend's house but now that I've grown up Genesis can't compare.

mark t
01-19-2007, 01:00 PM
I'm surprised you gave in on this one T :)


It hurt to do it.

Bill Pissott
01-19-2007, 01:07 PM
It hurt to do it.


Well, if you kept up the fight, I would have had your back..................in spirit :)

Mike Brown
01-19-2007, 02:08 PM
When I was younger I was more of a Genesis kid, it's all I owned. If I wanted to play Super Nintendo I had to go to a friend's house but now that I've grown up Genesis can't compare.

I'm sorry, but if it becomes too tight, I'm gonna take this as a vote for Genesis. :D

Michael Greenwood
01-19-2007, 05:13 PM
If it was 'after Syd' then I would have chosen Genesis but I love the first and most fabulous Pink Floyd album more than anything by Genesis. It also inspired so much amazing music through Krautrock and stuff that I have to vote Floyd. Then they went downhill rather quickly with a brief stop for coolness on Animals.

Mike Brown
01-19-2007, 05:17 PM
This one's breaking my heart.

Tom K
01-19-2007, 05:48 PM
Boy, this was tough...I went with Floyd though...

I really only like Gabriel era Genesis, but I like it a lot, which is what made this vote difficult...

Steve P.
01-19-2007, 05:59 PM
I'm not voting in this one. Forget it. Add in Deep Purple to the mix and you have three bands tied for my all time favorite.

Mike Brown
01-20-2007, 09:05 AM
This sucks. I'm waiting till Monday to call this one. Come on Genesis fans!

John G.
01-20-2007, 09:21 AM
It's kinda sad that this legend gets knocked out so early... that's what happens when non-prog fans vote in a prog poll I guess. :D

Bill Pissott
01-20-2007, 09:25 AM
Genesis.

John G.
01-20-2007, 09:49 AM
Very funny Bill. ;)

Bill Pissott
01-20-2007, 09:51 AM
Just trying to help you and Brown bring Genesis over the top :)

Jonathan Douglas
01-20-2007, 09:55 AM
How can Genesis not win this one? I'm at my wits' end.

Mike Brown
01-20-2007, 10:43 AM
Just trying to help you and Brown bring Genesis over the top :)

Thanks Bill! :D

Wayne Schmidt
01-20-2007, 11:32 AM
Genesis. Although I've overplayed their albums so much I don't listen to them these days. Even the boots, which are now easily scored I have trouble listening to. If I hear Supper's Ready one more time . . . . (as much as I love it). I never think of Floyd as a prog band (although I don't have a problem with the label) and loved all their albums from the first through MEDDLE. After that I like a few, but the angst stuff like THE WALL never did much for me.

Bill Pissott
01-21-2007, 09:06 AM
Thanks Bill! :D


Sure. It actually boiled down to a Genesis vs. Genesis round for me since I have never, don't and never will consider Floyd a prog band.

John G.
01-21-2007, 09:17 AM
I don't think there's any question that Pink Floyd were definitely a prog band... they don't come any more prog than Atom Heart Mother, that's for sure.

Bill Pissott
01-21-2007, 09:20 AM
I don't think so but we've had this discussion a million times before.

Steve P.
01-21-2007, 09:40 AM
Genesis. Although I've overplayed their albums so much I don't listen to them these days. Even the boots, which are now easily scored I have trouble listening to. If I hear Supper's Ready one more time . . . . (as much as I love it). .

I hear what you're saying. But if you ever get the chance, go see the Genesis tribute band The Musical Box. I'm not kidding you, they look and sound so much like the real thing, you'll think you were transported back to 1973. I saw TMB do the "Selling England by the Pound" tour and they replicated everything to perfection. If you've seen that Shepperton Studios boot from 1973, it was exactly the same thing. Same special effects, same stage setup, same between song banter from "Peter Gabriel" and note perfect renditions of the songs themselves. I don't normally go for tribute bands, but these guys have garnered a big following for a reason.

Wayne Schmidt
01-21-2007, 11:33 AM
Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing them but (one of the advantages of being old I guess) I saw the Gabriel era Genesis several times. I saw their first Los Angeles appearance at the Roxy, which is a small club and was only about 2 feet from the stage. In fact, before the show started one of the roadies came over to me and asked if I knew the song Supper's Ready. When I said I did he produced a sawed off broomstick handle and asked if I'd mind pushing the flash pot closer to Gabriel for the finale where he sings "And it's hey babe . . . . "! I did, gladly (although the damned thing almost took off my eyebrows!). I had my camera with me and shot a roll of film, which I didn't think would turn out. They did though, quite well if I do say so myself. I've included two samples. I saw them again later that year at the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium, which is a much bigger place. The exact opposite happened there . . . . I was in the last row (and Gabriel had a sore throat and could barely sing if I remember correctly).
I have the Shepperton video and it's a great memento 'cause it brings back great memories of that tour.

Unfortunately, I missed the Lamb tour. But I saw all the subsequent ones up to (I think) Abacab.

Steve P.
01-21-2007, 03:18 PM
Wow, those photos came out very clear. Do you have any others to post?

Wayne Schmidt
01-21-2007, 04:25 PM
Oh yeah, I took a 36 exposure roll of slides and almost all came out. I should upload them somewhere but here's a few more -

Steve P.
01-21-2007, 06:44 PM
Wayne, you took some phenomenal photographs. In fact, I think some of them would have looked great in Armando Gallo's book. Please, feel free to continue posting them, if only for my benefit. :D

Did you photograph any other bands?

Wayne Schmidt
01-21-2007, 07:20 PM
Thanks Steve! :-) Yeah, I was pretty amazed when they came back . . . all taken without a flash with the lens wide open. I thought, eh I won't get anything. I was psyched when I saw the result. Funny, the one band member I didn't get a good shot of was Phil Collins . . . I just kinda thought he's "the drummer", big deal. Hah. I've never photographed any other bands (or had the absolutely amazing seats I had for that show). Here's a few more. I'll try to upload the whole batch to flickr or one of those photo sharing sites at some point then send you the link.

John G.
01-21-2007, 07:33 PM
Those are some fantastic pics Wayne... keep 'em coming!

Wayne Schmidt
01-21-2007, 07:53 PM
Aww, thanks John! You guys are too kind and such an appreciative audience! Actually I don't think I've shown these to anyone since '73!! Okay, here's some more . . . . not everyone's a winner but they're all interesting (to Genesis fans at least) in their way. And at least you can see Phil at his drum kit in the background of the first one. LOL

Wayne Schmidt
01-21-2007, 08:06 PM
Almost the last of 'em . . . . the rest are very similiar to ones I've posted.

Wayne Schmidt
01-21-2007, 08:08 PM
Tada! That's pretty much it. Great show, warped me for life. :D

John G.
01-21-2007, 08:20 PM
Wow, it amazes me how similar The Musical Box replicated this stage show (just saw them in NYC a few weeks back). The props, the set, the lighting... while I was indeed "born too late" and missed out in seeing Genesis live in their prime, I'm at least glad I got a chance to experience a first-class recreation.

Well done on the pics.

Wayne Schmidt
01-21-2007, 08:33 PM
Didn't Phil Collins sit in with them for an encore in Europe? Or maybe that was one of the other tribute bands . . . I know I read that and saw a picture of him playing drums. I think this was a year or two back.

John G.
01-21-2007, 08:43 PM
Indeed he did.
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_ph-0DDKTtQ"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_ph-0DDKTtQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

A lot of people like to paint Phil as the big pop sell-out but it was Gabriel who opted out of the current reunion plans (and I guess Hackett is waiting on the sidelines for a full 5-man reunion). The original idea was to perform THE LAMB LIES DOWN ON BROADWAY in its entirety, but now that idea is put on the backburner. It all depends on whether Gabriel wants to do it... the other members (well, Collins, Banks and Rutherford) have gone on record as saying they're more than willing to do it.

Chad Haden
01-21-2007, 08:44 PM
Phil Collins is a funky drummer

mark t
01-21-2007, 08:45 PM
Notice how all the talk went to GENESIS, and not Floyd? It's because, and listen clearly now, PINK FLOYD ARE NOT A FUCKING PROG BAND. :)

John G.
01-21-2007, 08:47 PM
Mark, why do you have to put so much emphasis on labels? That's so uncool.

mark t
01-21-2007, 08:48 PM
Mark, why do you have to put so much emphasis on labels? That's so uncool.


Blow me, Gargo. ;)

Chad Haden
01-21-2007, 08:49 PM
or even a good band for that matter

mark t
01-21-2007, 08:50 PM
or even a good band for that matter


Oh, are we gonna dance now, Chad? Cause my dance card is full...but i'll open it up for somebody who doesn't think that Floyd is even a good band...I'll open it RIGHT THE FUCK UP.

Chad Haden
01-21-2007, 08:51 PM
Oh, are we gonna dance now, Chad? Cause my dance card is full...but i'll open it up for somebody who doesn't think that Floyd is even a good band...I'll open it RIGHT THE FUCK UP.


You know how I feel about them, we've already had this conversation

Wayne Schmidt
01-21-2007, 08:53 PM
That's excellent! Thanks John! Is there a DVD of the full performance somewhere? I'd love to see it. It must have been a bit of a time machine rush for him to do that guest bit. I think Phil and the rest of the band have a fondness for their early years (of course Hackett recorded "Genesis Revisited" re-doing a bunch of the older stuff). I had heard that about Gabriel as well, and it's a bit of a shame. I guess he's not against the idea, just had a few other things he wanted to get out of the way first. The Collins-Rutherford-Banks lineup are touring in Europe now . . . who knows, maybe in a year or two the do the Lamb thing.

mark t
01-21-2007, 08:54 PM
You know how I feel about them, we've already had this conversation


Conversations are always better that second time around, when fists are flyin', and Pink Floyd is beating the motherfuck out of George Jones.....

Don Guarisco
01-21-2007, 08:57 PM
listen clearly now, PINK FLOYD ARE NOT A FUCKING PROG BAND. :)

Too late, Tolchie. The nerds have claimed them for their own...

http://www.proggnosis.com/MUSIC_DBArtist.asp?txtArtistID=225

http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_BAND.asp?band_id=364

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Floyd

Chad Haden
01-21-2007, 08:57 PM
Conversations are always better that second time around, when fists are flyin', and Pink Floyd is beating the motherfuck out of George Jones.....


Motherfucker! You just want an ass whippin don't you? Ya no good soap dodgin Rangers supportin bastard! I'll slap the fucking orange off ya

mark t
01-21-2007, 08:59 PM
Too late, Tolchie. The nerds have claimed them for their own...

http://www.proggnosis.com/MUSIC_DBArtist.asp?txtArtistID=225

http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_BAND.asp?band_id=364

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Floyd


Fuck that shit, Sweet Donnie G......the nerds can go claim Genesis and Yes. The Floyd are MINE.

mark t
01-21-2007, 09:00 PM
Motherfucker! You just want an ass whippin don't you? Ya no good soap dodgin Rangers supportin bastard! I'll slap the fucking orange off ya


I'll be honest with you, you Italian loving Popefucker.....stick to ass-raping canoieing city boy tourists, cause you ain't got a fuckin' chance against THIS Canuck....

Don Guarisco
01-21-2007, 09:01 PM
Fuck that shit, Sweet Donnie G......the nerds can go claim Genesis and Yes. The Floyd are MINE.

I'm sorry, Tolch. Once they stake their claim, the claim sticks. And any fans of the group become proggers by extension, Tolch. I really wish I could help you but it's too late...


"Gooble, gobble, geeble, gobble! One of us, one of us, one of us..."

John G.
01-21-2007, 09:03 PM
Is Mark going to play the flute now in his band?

Chad Haden
01-21-2007, 09:04 PM
I'll be honest with you, you Italian loving Popefucker.....stick to ass-raping canoieing city boy tourists, cause you ain't got a fuckin' chance against THIS Canuck....


You toque wearing moose fucking son of a bitch! I don't ass-rape any city slickers and I know good music when I hear it...unlike you.

John G.
01-21-2007, 09:06 PM
That's excellent! Thanks John! Is there a DVD of the full performance somewhere? I'd love to see it. It must have been a bit of a time machine rush for him to do that guest bit. I think Phil and the rest of the band have a fondness for their early years (of course Hackett recorded "Genesis Revisited" re-doing a bunch of the older stuff). I had heard that about Gabriel as well, and it's a bit of a shame. I guess he's not against the idea, just had a few other things he wanted to get out of the way first. The Collins-Rutherford-Banks lineup are touring in Europe now . . . who knows, maybe in a year or two the do the Lamb thing.
This is the only clip I've seen. I did read Phil Collins' response to the whole experience... he claims that his performance was really subpar, but it looks fine from the clip shown.

I may shoot down my prog cred but I love all of Genesis' albums and I'll try to get tickets for the 3-man line-up once they hit the states in a few months. Gabriel also claims a studio album and tour is on the way (we'll see) and Hackett himself just released a studio album and is hinting at a tour. So if things work out perfectly, I might get to see 3-man Genesis, Hackett and Gabriel and then next year, fingers crossed, a 5 man Genesis reunion.

I'm such a dork...

Bill Pissott
01-21-2007, 09:09 PM
Notice how all the talk went to GENESIS, and not Floyd? It's because, and listen clearly now, PINK FLOYD ARE NOT A FUCKING PROG BAND. :)


'Bout time you woke the fuck up from that slumber of yours.

mark t
01-21-2007, 09:11 PM
You toque wearing moose fucking son of a bitch! I don't ass-rape any city slickers and I know good music when I hear it...unlike you.


I would have totally fallen for that, except for the fact that I know you like Billy Childish and Waylon Jennings....and I've got the feeling that you're also a Velvet Underground fan...

Chad Haden
01-21-2007, 09:14 PM
I would have totally fallen for that, except for the fact that I know you like Billy Childish and Waylon Jennings....and I've got the feeling that you're also a Velvet Underground fan...


Billy Childish, Waylon Jennings and John Cale era Velvet Underground all fall under the heading of good music.

mark t
01-21-2007, 09:17 PM
Billy Childish, Waylon Jennings and John Cale era Velvet Underground all fall under the heading of good music.


Sure they do....and i bet you're REALLY happy that you can play 'em all on your banjo with your eyes half-open, hillbilly.

John G.
01-21-2007, 09:17 PM
What? Don't tell me you don't like The Velvet's self titled album... it's brilliant.

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000002G7G.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V1115627843_.jpg

mark t
01-21-2007, 09:18 PM
Oh, and try not to let the door hit your ass while you're nailing your sister on the way out....

Steve P.
01-21-2007, 09:39 PM
I may shoot down my prog cred but I love all of Genesis' albums and I'll try to get tickets for the 3-man line-up once they hit the states in a few months. Gabriel also claims a studio album and tour is on the way (we'll see) and Hackett himself just released a studio album and is hinting at a tour. So if things work out perfectly, I might get to see 3-man Genesis, Hackett and Gabriel and then next year, fingers crossed, a 5 man Genesis reunion.

I'm such a dork...

Not at all. I will be getting tickets as soon as they're announced. I saw Genesis in 1992 in Foxboro, Massachusetts and while it was nothing like the Gabriel era, it was an excellent show.

I was too young to see the original Genesis, but I'm glad all the factions are still touring. I also saw Peter Gabriel in 1993 in Worcester Mass from the front row and it was fantastic. But the best of all was probably seeing Steve Hackett at Nearfest in 2002. It blew my mind.

I really doubt a 5 man Genesis will ever happen. I would be first in line if it did, but I can't imagine Gabriel singing some of those songs now. Even he has admitted as much. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

Gabriel can't be claiming a new studio album/tour because it hasn't been over a decade since his last one yet. ;)

Wayne Schmidt
01-21-2007, 11:04 PM
Not at all. I will be getting tickets as soon as they're announced. I saw Genesis in 1992 in Foxboro, Massachusetts and while it was nothing like the Gabriel era, it was an excellent show.

I was too young to see the original Genesis, but I'm glad all the factions are still touring. I also saw Peter Gabriel in 1993 in Worcester Mass from the front row and it was fantastic. But the best of all was probably seeing Steve Hackett at Nearfest in 2002. It blew my mind.
I haven't seen Hackett since the late seventies on the DEFECTOR tour. He was here in Portland last year on the accoustic trio thing, but I didn't get to it. I like his classical material (especially METAMORPHEUS) but his electric band is pretty blistering. I'd like to have seen the Nearfest show.

Mike Brown
01-22-2007, 09:21 AM
Fantastic Pics Wayne! Thanks for sharing.

Wayne Schmidt
01-22-2007, 11:46 AM
No prob, Mike. Glad you enjoyed 'em. :)

Steve P.
01-22-2007, 05:13 PM
I haven't seen Hackett since the late seventies on the DEFECTOR tour. He was here in Portland last year on the accoustic trio thing, but I didn't get to it. I like his classical material (especially METAMORPHEUS) but his electric band is pretty blistering. I'd like to have seen the Nearfest show.

If you want to see something similar to the Nearfest show, check out Steve's "Once Above a Time" DVD. It's outstanding. Superlative sound and video. The setlist was nearly identical to the show I saw. Oh and the Nearfest show is available complete as a two CD set.