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Matt A
01-05-2007, 07:32 PM
I don't remember where I read this but I recall a statement regarding the CIA and FBI's stance on snuff film rings that basically said that, whenever found, the makers of such films are "eliminated" and all evidence is destroyed immediately...or sent to the White House basement theater. Something like that.

Paul A J Lewis
01-05-2007, 07:39 PM
I remember Roth saying something to the effect that the film was inspired by a Thai website he and Tarantino had found.
Bollocks, I say :D

There's a book by Yoran Svoray called GODS OF DEATH that you may enjoy reading, Aaron: Svoray claims to have found his way into a screening of a snuff movie. It's complete sensationalism, and because Svoray keeps referring to unnamed sources (although he does at one point refer to a discussion he reputedly had with Robert De Niro, on the topic of snuff films), it's completely impossible to verify. It's still interesting reading, though.

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/0684814455.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V1056465423_.jpg

Paul A J Lewis
01-05-2007, 07:42 PM
Here's more info about De Niro and Svoray's meeting:

Is Film Fan De Niro Really Up to Snuff?
August 23, 1997
De Niro displayed little more than detached curiosity about pornographers who kill when he viewed a grisly movie in Paris in 1995, investigative reporter Yaron Svoray contends in his forthcoming Simon & Schuster book, "Gods of Death."

Svoray, who went undercover to expose the snuff trade, writes that De Niro asked him to arrange a screening of one of the gruesome videos because the actor was having trouble with a script that dealt with the subject.

Hoping that De Niro would help him prove that the murderous industry does exist, Svoray told porn peddlers he had a customer who was shopping for a snuff film. After getting a quick taste, De Niro was supposed to tell them he found the video boring.

According to the book, DeNiro and an associate went to a small hotel and witnessed footage of a woman being dismembered. De Niro said he wasn't impressed. Svoray writes: "I said, 'OK, then . . . Let's get out of here,' expecting Robert to take my lead. To my surprise he shook his head. He told me to settle down; maybe there was something coming up that we would like."

After watching more gore, De Niro decreed it was all "crap" he'd seen before. Svoray paid his porn contacts for the screening. Later, at his own hotel room, Svoray said De Niro told him he was convinced the killing was real. But Svoray was disappointed by the reaction of the actor and his associate:

"They asked questions, but not the right ones. They didn't ask how what they had seen could've been allowed to happen, or what they could do about it . . . Although I knew Robert and his friend had been affected by what they had seen, they were still Hollywood. They were interested in motivation . . . the psychology of what we had done. They did not seem interested in the fact that they had just witnessed murder."

Svoray says that De Niro, who he says paid him about $10,000 to cover his expenses, asked if he had any other snuff films. "I didn't," writes Svoray. "He was on a plane back to New York the next day."

Having seen his previous investigation of neo-Nazi groups become an HBO movie, Svoray had hoped De Niro would attach himself to a project that would "make a big noise and expose the depths of porno," according to producer Ray Errol Fox, who is now shopping Svoray's story to Hollywood.

De Niro spokesman Stan Rosenfield was unable to reach the Oscar-winning star, who is on vacation abroad. But Rosenfield offered that if Svoray found De Niro's reaction subdued, that didn't mean he wasn't outraged.

"Bob plays life close to the vest," said Rosenfield. "He's not a public person. He often doesn't show strangers what he's feeling. When people try to interpret him, they end up misinterpreting him."
Source: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/set/9401/news1.htm

Jason S
01-05-2007, 07:43 PM
There's a book called Gods of Death the is supposedly "true" that documents a guy trying to find evidence of snuff rings in Europe. He claims they exist(ed) but can't produce a film.

I dunno, you'd think that a real snuff film would leak out somehow. Don't doubt that horrible things like rape, torture and murder have gone down with a camera present in warzones and places hit by genocide.

Matt A
01-05-2007, 07:47 PM
There's a book by Yoran Svoray called GODS OF DEATH...it's complete sensationalism...

That book came across as a movie pitch. Really fishy on details and definitely sensationalistic. I didn't buy into it. The film 8MM seemed to have been influenced by this too.

The books KILLING FOR CULTURE and SEE NO EVIL both touch on snuff films and even site some articles. Check'em out if you get a chance.

Paul A J Lewis
01-05-2007, 07:49 PM
The customer comments on Amazon will tell you that GODS OF DEATH really reads more like a spy novel than an expose; I'm inclined to agree with them.

There's a cracking review of the book on Salon, which I think is worth reading:

gods of death
one man hunts the truth about snuff films

Gods of Death

BY YARON SVORAY

SIMON & SCHUSTER

NONFICTION

306 PAGES

BY MICHAEL BOXALL | evil incarnate is not a fashionable concept, but it's about the only way to get a handle on the snuff film business. What else would make somebody rape a woman or a child -- who had been kidnapped or bought -- and then kill her or him on camera? This is not behavior that can be treated with a 12-step recovery program. "The feeling is so good, it makes everything else seem so trivial, so stupid," a filmmaker identified only as Raymond A. told Yaron Svoray. "Can you understand this moment of sheer joy? I am God. I decide if she lives or dies."

Once reserved for emperors and victorious soldiery, the spectacle of sexual killing can now be enjoyed by anybody with a burned-out conscience and the right connections. Or so Svoray claims. Although he describes seeing snuff films in a gated complex somewhere north of New York and at a kind of porn trade show in a French château, he never actually acquired one for himself. Nevertheless, he insists they are available. The price tag, he reports, is $250,000, and the enterprising owner can take it on the road, setting up screenings at which aficionados pay $1,500 each. This makes jerking off while somebody gets their throat slashed an up-market pastime, though not prohibitively expensive for the neatly dressed professionals who appear to form the audiences.

Svoray, an Israeli journalist, claims to have seen his first snuff film while reporting on the neo-Nazi underground in Germany. In it, a girl of 8 or 10 was raped and tortured by five men, then lifted up by her hair and stabbed in the chest, a process known with Teutonic jocularity as schlitze und dize -- slice and dice. His subsequent investigation, described in "Gods of Death," brought him into contact with dealers and pimps and gangsters on three continents, a cross-section of the walking dead richly deserving of hell's worst torments.

What starts off as an account of a moral crusade to uncover the key players in the snuff film industry, though, quickly turns into a rather slick thriller. Svoray's collaborator in writing "Gods of Death" was a screenwriter, and the sequence of events seems to have been massaged considerably so things have a beginning, a middle and an end. There's even an element of farce, when a real wedding party arrives at a restaurant set up for an elegant sting operation. Brash, tough and resourceful, Svoray sticks -- perhaps wisely -- to a dramatic and readable account of how he pursued his quarry and does not speculate about why people watch snuff movies.

But in doing so he leaves the most important questions unasked. Who are these viewers whose dollars supposedly keep the Russian mafia and Croatian mercenaries slitting throats? How did they acquire this taste? Were they born with a desire for extreme forms of non-consensual sex, a dark and savage appetite that sets them apart from other people? Or did they pick it up over time? Anti-censorship advocates have a vested interest in the argument that snuff films are just a rather gruesome modern myth -- just as Svoray, one eye on a movie deal, is committed to proving they exist. Too bad that "Gods of Death," with its changed names and rejigged chronology, leaves these issues unresolved, and that it bases its claims on such shaky facts.
SALON | Oct. 16, 1997

Source: http://www.salon.com/books/sneaks/1997/10/16review.html

Cheers,
Paul

Matt A
01-05-2007, 07:50 PM
There's a book called Gods of Death the is supposedly "true" that documents a guy trying to find evidence of snuff rings in Europe. He claims they exist(ed) but can't produce a film.

Seriously, dude - how many pills? :D

Jason S
01-05-2007, 07:58 PM
Seriously, dude - how many pills? :D

Sorry I didn't do a fine research job like Paul did. He beat me to it. No pills just a couple glasses of wine.

Bitch.

Matt A
01-05-2007, 08:01 PM
Sorry I didn't do a fine research job like Paul did. He beat me to it. No pills just a couple glasses of wine.

Bitch.

Jeez. Maybe you should take a pill...a CHILL PILL! SNAP!!! YA HA!!!

And with that I'm going home. :p

Paul A J Lewis
01-05-2007, 08:06 PM
Then again, Paul, if Svoray's accounts are true, wouldn't you think that further disclosure...or hell, even writing the book at all, would have gotten him killed?
True. However, the book reads more like Svoray's attempt at writing a page-turning thriller than a serious investigation into the topic, complete with outbursts of moral outrage.

There are all kinds of people in the world, and I don't doubt that this kind of material exists: John Gotti reputedly filmed mob 'enforcements', for example. However, in the case of GODS OF DEATH I'm of the belief that Svoray went out in search of 'snuff' and found himself heading down a blind alley. I'm sure he fabricated some details and elaborated on what may have been real events; but I think the book is about as accurate as a headline in a tabloid newspaper.

The encounter with De Niro has always puzzled me, however, as I would suspect that such an encounter (or something like it) must have taken place, or else De Niro would have taken Svoray to court.

Cheers,
Paul

Jonny Redman
01-05-2007, 08:06 PM
I found a snuff website...

HERE (http://www.snuffbox.org.uk/where.htm)

"I have no commercial interest whatever in maintaining this site, nor any interest in any reward from those mentioned above.
However my hope is that they will be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth
with a good and wide choice of snuffs."

Paul A J Lewis
01-05-2007, 08:13 PM
Snuff makes your face go numb :D

Paul A J Lewis
01-05-2007, 08:30 PM
Smith's Snuff Shop in London is supposed to be rather impressive!

http://www.artnet.com/artwork_images_168763_175573_berenice-abbott.jpghttp://www.buddelbini.de/gfx/blechschilder/aa218.jpg

'A pinch a day keeps flu away', indeed :D

Andy Copp
01-05-2007, 08:51 PM
That GODS OF DEATH book is a complete fabrication. I read it and it doesn't even work as good fiction. The whole thing is a puff pice to make the author seem like some sort of virile superman.

As for Eli Roth this is the same guy that in an on camera interview for the DARK SIDE OF PORN TV show claims that the cannibals in CANNIBAL HOLOCAUST are REAL!!!! This is the same dude who did a commentary for BLOODSUCKING FREAKS without knowing a damn think about the movie!!! He probably saw one of those show on video fake snuff movies that companies like WAVE or FACTORY 2000 used to make and got all twitchy thinking it was the real deal. God knows what he would do if someone sat him down in front of AUGUST UNDERGROUND...

As for whether or not this kind of thing exists? Before the proliferation of easy access video and digital cameras probably not. That's when the FBI did their big study on it and came up empty. BUt now we live in a world where teenagers video tape themselves raping retarded girls and make DVD's of it, decapitations of prisoner's of WAR are found as downloads on the internet etc. So could this happen for real now? Very easily I'm afriad...

Randy Thomas G
01-06-2007, 01:18 AM
The closest things to snuff I've ever read about are the videos that the serial killers Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka made of the themselves raping (and I think, killing) two young girls.

The jury, police and lawyers involved in the case were unfortunate enough to have to view some of this footage, which has since been destroyed, I believe.

I'm sure that if real snuff did exist some republican would have dug it up by now for a re-election campaign, although as Andy says, with the way things are going on the internet it may only be a matter of time.

Alex K.
01-06-2007, 01:21 AM
Read this:

http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/1871592208.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

scott favareille
01-06-2007, 01:10 PM
I'm suprised that nobody has mentioned Allan Shackleford's attempt in the 1970's that was called Snuff (aka the Findlays film The Mutilated). That was an uproar that turned into a "much ado about nothing".

Andy Copp
01-06-2007, 01:19 PM
KILLING FOR CULTURE is an outstanding book, probably one of my most read books in my collection. Ite being reissued this year with new chapters and totally revised and updated too.

As for Shackleton's SNUFF the movie is so phony the only people who believed it where the WOMEN AGAINST PORNOGRAPHY who refused to actually watch it and it was them who, by protesting, made it a hit.

The closest thign I have seen to snuff came from the music world, it was a short film directed by MOnte Cazzaza for the psychedelic Music Group PSYCHIC TV that involved Castrations and the like, though I suppose it ins't really Snuff since no one died. But it wasn't real either, but VERY convincing.

The other closest, and way more disturbing actually, was a porno loop called (in the States anyway) MEATHOOK PUSSY which involved a woman being bound haning upside down, her vagina cut a bunch of times and ultimately raped with a meathook. Once again all fake, but really disturbing. Its circulating these days on a tape from France called EROTIC PERVERSIONS...

And if ELI ROTH see's it he'll be claiming its all real...

Jennifer S.
01-06-2007, 02:38 PM
I do think graphic sexual torture violence like Andy describes despite being fake is sick as hell. I wouldn't feel safe at all knowing a person that gets off watching that shit. There is a fine line between normal healthy kinky interests, and more extreme sickening forms that show somethings not right in the persons head.

It wouldn't surprise me if their were some deep deep deep underground snuff ring that actually exists. But since the definition of snuff involves videos/movies made for money,and the only real death videos that exist. Are either terrorist slaughtering their prisoners,or serial killers filming victims or footage from war caught on tape,or someone happening to be filming while an accident happens out of nowhere splattering someone by train.car or whatever. While those are real deaths caught on tape,they were not made for profit and planned out. Thus the they are not 'snuff' films by the definition of it. So it seems like the 'real deal' snuff rings don't exist so far,or at least are very good at hiding.

But it wouldn't surprise me. Since fake snuff flicks exists, the real deal must be out there somewhere. I remember watching HBOs Taxicab Confessions a few years ago. And a woman discussed being offered money for a fake snuff video. She took the offer,since the money was really good. But had an off duty cop come with her for protection just to be safe,since she didn't know if they were lying too her and would kill her for real,or what. She then says that the video involved her being raped and strangled and beaten etc before being shot or something. And she then went on her way afterwards and the cop found it 'interesting',since it's not everday you get a call to go watch a fake snuff flick being made. She then said despite the video she did being fake. She was sure,that the makers had connections and real snuff videos do exist and the people making hers probably made some or knew people who did.

Paul A J Lewis
01-06-2007, 07:28 PM
As for Shackleton's SNUFF the movie is so phony the only people who believed it where the WOMEN AGAINST PORNOGRAPHY who refused to actually watch it and it was them who, by protesting, made it a hit.
Apparently, when the movie was submitted to the BBFC by Exploited in the late-1990s, the BFFC withheld a certificate, not because of the content of the film but because of the connotations of its title.

The closest thign I have seen to snuff came from the music world, it was a short film directed by MOnte Cazzaza for the psychedelic Music Group PSYCHIC TV that involved Castrations and the like, though I suppose it ins't really Snuff since no one died. But it wasn't real either, but VERY convincing.
The 'First Transmission' video? Didn't that get Genesis P.Orridge into a lot of hot water? It's troubling stuff, indeed.

Jason S
01-06-2007, 09:06 PM
This has a flawless five star rating on Amazon with ten reviews, and looks like a fascinating read. Many of the reads say it's a great resource. I might have to pick this one up.

You need it. It is a great book, deserving of those Amazon reviews.

Alyss N.
01-06-2007, 09:33 PM
Those boobs in your av are mesmerizing. :o

Scott Ruhl
01-07-2007, 01:12 AM
LOL
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4HR1EHUZ71g"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4HR1EHUZ71g" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Fred Adelman
01-07-2007, 01:21 AM
Trent Reznor is one sick fuck. Musically, he hasn't done anything good since Closer. I guess he has to shock visually now, although most of his videos lunge into Lynch territory.

Expect the above video to be pulled off of YouTube shortly. I'm sure someone will complain.

Aleck Bennett
01-07-2007, 10:46 AM
Trent Reznor is one sick fuck. Musically, he hasn't done anything good since Closer. I guess he has to shock visually now, although most of his videos lunge into Lynch territory.

Expect the above video to be pulled off of YouTube shortly. I'm sure someone will complain.

That's pre-"Closer". It's from the Broken EP.

Scott Ruhl
01-07-2007, 10:53 AM
Yeah that's an old-ass video Fred.

Fred Adelman
01-07-2007, 02:12 PM
Yeah that's an old-ass video Fred.


Yeah, I know. It's just the first time I've seen it uncensored. The music still sucks, BTW, and I used to be a huge NIN fan. I just turned down the volume and watched the images on this video. He's still a sick fuck and lost all his talent when Richard Patrick left and formed Filter. Filter was turning out better music than him until Patrick committed himself to a recovery clinic.

Fred Adelman
01-07-2007, 02:30 PM
T-ya, uhh, like, yeaw, Fred, that's like SOO totally yesterday's newwwsss. :cool:

I didn't even know what the hell it was at first.


The things I have to put up with here.

Sometimes I have a really hard time expressing myself properly. :D

Wish I had a different set of smileys to remedy the situation. :(

Alyss N.
01-07-2007, 02:33 PM
How about...

http://xinferis.invisionzone.com/style_emoticons/Inferis/behind.gif

Fred Adelman
01-07-2007, 02:38 PM
How about...

http://xinferis.invisionzone.com/style_emoticons/Inferis/behind.gif


Obscene, but it fits the situation. That one can be used everytime someone feels that they are getting screwed-over.

I'd use it a lot. :D

Alyss N.
01-07-2007, 02:39 PM
Just for Aaron, compliments of the XInferis Board Nazi...

http://xinferis.invisionzone.com/style_emoticons/Inferis/reich.gif

Alyss N.
01-07-2007, 02:59 PM
Damn right you do. http://xinferis.invisionzone.com/style_emoticons/Inferis/chucks.gif

Paul A J Lewis
01-07-2007, 04:14 PM
http://xinferis.invisionzone.com/style_emoticons/Inferis/chucks.gif
That's one cool smiley, right there! Maybe it should be combined with this one: http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/1175/ninjaemoticoncf1.gif

Alyss N.
01-07-2007, 05:34 PM
That's one cool smiley, right there! Maybe it should be combined with this one: http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/1175/ninjaemoticoncf1.gif

How about...

http://xinferis.invisionzone.com/style_emoticons/Inferis/dothefunkyninja.gif

Andy Copp
01-07-2007, 11:42 PM
The 'First Transmission' video? Didn't that get Genesis P.Orridge into a lot of hot water? It's troubling stuff, indeed.

Actually First Transmission is another seperate piece of video involving a lot of S+M, cutting, bloodletting and the like that was actually directed by Derek Jarman! But you are very correct about it getting Genesis into trouble, a right wing Christian program called Dispatches paid a mentally ill woman to go on the air and claim she was in the video and that it was a snuff film and that they were aborting her baby and killing children in it. Now if you watch it nothgn like that is happening and it turns out the whole video had played British TV in the early 80's albeit late night. BUt this was enough to cause moral panic and put the Scotland yard after Genesis, who was in Tibet doing missionary work at the time! So he was an exile and his entire archive of videos, books, music etc was confiscated. He was allowed back into Britain in 1999 and all was forgiven by the British Government but he never got his stuff back and never was publically apologized too even though it was all proven to be a big hoax.

Andy

Aleck Bennett
01-08-2007, 12:23 AM
Yeah, I know. It's just the first time I've seen it uncensored. The music still sucks, BTW, and I used to be a huge NIN fan. I just turned down the volume and watched the images on this video. He's still a sick fuck and lost all his talent when Richard Patrick left and formed Filter. Filter was turning out better music than him until Patrick committed himself to a recovery clinic.

Richard Patrick was still associated with NIN at the time of this short film and its associated EP -- he even plays a cop at the end of the flick. For my money, the talent in Nine Inch Nails resided with Podboy, and once he was kicked to the curb after TDS, NIN became a lost cause. The Fragile is a monument to bad wankery, and proof positive that TRez should have long left the whole "performing musician" thing to one side and concentrated on being a producer. And don't even get me started on With Teeth. Or his inability to run a goddamn record label outside of his own infrequent releases.

Ariel P
01-08-2007, 04:04 AM
The closest thign I have seen to snuff came from the music world, it was a short film directed by MOnte Cazzaza for the psychedelic Music Group PSYCHIC TV that involved Castrations and the like, though I suppose it ins't really Snuff since no one died. But it wasn't real either, but VERY convincing.



Andy,

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I was under the impression that Peter Cristopherson directed the Psychic TV castration video, as well as the NIN Broken video; he was the filmmaker (along with Derek Jarman,) of that little circle. I heard Genesis was a little pissed at him because of the hot water it got him in. But then again the history of these artists is always hazy, because unfortunately there hasn’t been enough written about them out side of RE/search and a few obscure publications and books. I know Monte Cazazza worked on the True Gore video with M. Dixon Causey, but I never came across information pointing to his involvement in the castration video. I was wondering from what sources did you get this information? There is, unfortunately a lot of misinformation around, I’ve fallen victim to it myself. Didn’t the whole satanic ritual abuse scare, and Operation Spanner from the late 80’s and early 90’s, also have a role in his exile?

In regards to snuff films, didn’t the survivalist serial killer duo Leonard Lake and Charles Ng video tape themselves torturing and killing their victims? Or so wrote Jim Goad in the ‘Night of a Hundred Mass-Murdering, Serial-Killing Stars’ from the second issue of ‘Answer Me!’.

P.S. Andy, expect an email from me around February. I wanted to wait until I was 21 as to not get you in any hot water, but I then got distracted.

Paul A J Lewis
01-08-2007, 02:05 PM
Actually First Transmission is another seperate piece of video involving a lot of S+M, cutting, bloodletting and the like that was actually directed by Derek Jarman! But you are very correct about it getting Genesis into trouble, a right wing Christian program called Dispatches paid a mentally ill woman to go on the air and claim she was in the video and that it was a snuff film and that they were aborting her baby and killing children in it. Now if you watch it nothgn like that is happening and it turns out the whole video had played British TV in the early 80's albeit late night.
The satanic abuse thing was all over the papers in Britain during the late 1980s. I remember at one point, barely a week seemed to pass without the covers of the British tabloids carrying a story about ritual satanic abuse and/or murder.

I vividly remember the Dispatches episode in question; I think it was broadcast in about 1990 and was put together by the feminist Beatrix Campbell. I remember in particular the show's visit to a Nottingham cemetery at night, in search of evidence of satanic abuse. Nevertheless, it's a shame Dispatches still isn't on the air, as aside from a few poorly-researched, exploitative episodes (including the episode in question), for the most part it was far better than most of the current affairs shows on UK television at the moment. (Of the recent current affairs shows, 'Tonight With Trevor MacDonald' is by far the worst: by and large, it's badly-research, reactionary tosh.)

Last year, the BBC revisited the topic of satanic abuse called 'When Satan Came to Town' and produced an interesting documentary about the impact of the moral panic surrounding that gripped Britain in the late-1980s:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/real_story/4595158.stm

I remember hearing mention that First Transmission was shown by Channel 4.

Cheers,
Paul

Clint C
01-08-2007, 03:03 PM
KILLING FOR CULTURE is an outstanding book, probably one of my most read books in my collection. Ite being reissued this year with new chapters and totally revised and updated too.
Do you know when it's coming out and who's publishing it?

Mike Brown
01-08-2007, 03:44 PM
Those boobs in your av are mesmerizing. :o

See:
http://www.dvdmaniacs.net/forums/showthread.php?t=26131&highlight=jay+spear%27s+avatar

Andy Copp
01-08-2007, 04:22 PM
Do you know when it's coming out and who's publishing it?

HEADPRESS is publishing it I think is April of this year, but their release dates are always a bit mercurial, but I'm sure it will be worth the wait. Check www.headpress.com for more details when they arrive

Clint C
01-08-2007, 04:33 PM
HEADPRESS is publishing it I think is April of this year, but their release dates are always a bit mercurial, but I'm sure it will be worth the wait. Check www.headpress.com for more details when they arrive
Thanks for the info. I've been meaning to pick it up for years now, so I'll definitely get the new edition.

Andy Copp
01-08-2007, 04:34 PM
Andy,

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I was under the impression that Peter Cristopherson directed the Psychic TV castration video, as well as the NIN Broken video; he was the filmmaker (along with Derek Jarman,) of that little circle. I heard Genesis was a little pissed at him because of the hot water it got him in. But then again the history of these artists is always hazy, because unfortunately there hasn’t been enough written about them out side of RE/search and a few obscure publications and books. I know Monte Cazazza worked on the True Gore video with M. Dixon Causey, but I never came across information pointing to his involvement in the castration video. I was wondering from what sources did you get this information? There is, unfortunately a lot of misinformation around, I’ve fallen victim to it myself. Didn’t the whole satanic ritual abuse scare, and Operation Spanner from the late 80’s and early 90’s, also have a role in his exile?
.

You could be right that Christopherson directed the Castration video. He DID direct the BROKEN video from NIN and it resembles that Castration video in a lot of ways. I just have a vague memory of reading an interview with Cazzazza where he claimed he directed it. But I don't remember where I read that.

Yes the whole Satanic Abuse scare was the direct cause of that whole mess for Genesis. The whole Dispatches episode was about that. That whole Abuse scare was quite the mess.



In regards to snuff films, didn’t the survivalist serial killer duo Leonard Lake and Charles Ng video tape themselves torturing and killing their victims? Or so wrote Jim Goad in the ‘Night of a Hundred Mass-Murdering, Serial-Killing Stars’ from the second issue of ‘Answer Me!’.


They videotaped the torture and sexual abuse but appearently stopped short of taping the auctual murder. But the tapes were still too much for most of the jurors, many of who went into counseling to cope with what they had to see for the trial.



P.S. Andy, expect an email from me around February. I wanted to wait until I was 21 as to not get you in any hot water, but I then got distracted.

Sounds good to me!

Andy

Andy Copp
01-08-2007, 04:48 PM
Last year, the BBC revisited the topic of satanic abuse called 'When Satan Came to Town' and produced an interesting documentary about the impact of the moral panic surrounding that gripped Britain in the late-1980s:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/real_story/4595158.stm


If anyone comes up with a copy of this I would love to see it!

Andy

Alex K.
01-08-2007, 10:43 PM
Thanks for the Broken Video. I had tried downloading that about a month ago but couldn't get it to play.

The closest you could get to an actual snuff film ring were the Chechnya snuff films, which depicted Russian soldiers and civilians being raped and murdered, the videos were sold at local bazaars. I asked David Kerekes if this would get covered in the updated Killing For Culture and never received a response.

I hate to sound like the sick fuck in the room, but have any of the videos by Charles NG and Leonard Lake been made available to the public? It is completely plausible that the duo shot the murders, as later on even more bodies were found on the compound the two lived on.

An on PTV (Andy, I'll be ordering that collection shortly) and Cazazza, has there been any film on Monte's art performances? The one where he and a few cohorts chainsaw and gang rape a statue of christ into oblivion sounds interesting.

Andy Copp
01-08-2007, 11:45 PM
I have some really shitty quality copies of Cazzazza's other short films which haven't stood the test of time for shock value I'm afraid. Piercings and bugs on vagina's are not too shocking in today's world of gaping anuses... BUt I've not seen any of his performances. I have both of the TRUE GORE movies he did too but if you've seen any other post 1990 mondo effort you've seen the footage as it seems every TRACES OF DEATH and the liked just lifted from these.

You know I;m starting to scare myself with how much information I have on this thread! I'm not a serial killer I swear!!!!!

Fred Adelman
01-09-2007, 12:07 AM
You know I;m starting to scare myself with how much information I have on this thread! I'm not a serial killer I swear!!!!!

Thank God you said that. I was beginning to get worried! :D

Andy Copp
01-09-2007, 12:34 AM
All this reseach ends up in scripts, the last two I wrote are swimming with the details we've been discussing on this thread

Alyss N.
01-09-2007, 06:54 AM
See:
http://www.dvdmaniacs.net/forums/showthread.php?t=26131&highlight=jay+spear%27s+avatar

I just came across that yesterday. :D

Robert J
01-09-2007, 11:26 AM
I heard the Ng and Lake footage was destroyed. That always seems to be the case when they find footage like that. Authorities end up destroying all footage, well at least that's what they tell the public.

Matt A
01-09-2007, 12:16 PM
I hate to sound like the sick fuck in the room, but have any of the videos by Charles NG and Leonard Lake been made available to the public?

I saw some of the footage on a news show, Dateline or 20/20. Even though it didn't feature any physical abuse it was still disturbing to watch since you know what would happen later. A woman was tied to a chair and you see NG enter the room, shirtless, and begin talking to her. It was only 10 or 12 seconds but it was enough to make me a little sick.

Kieran M
01-09-2007, 12:30 PM
About 1-minute of the Ng footage was featured in a Bio A&E's "Biography" series did on he and Lake.
[edited to add] - sounds like similar footage to what Matthew mentions above.

Robert J
01-09-2007, 12:42 PM
Yeah I believe I saw that A&E footage as well. But heard somewhere it was since destroyed.

Kind of on topic - But I always wanted to see footage of the guy who made that bomb he was planning to send to Bjork. I've read it's about 13 to 20 hours of him ranting to the camera, making a bomb hidden in a book then offing himself with a gun. Some of the footage was on the news like VH1 or something. I wonder what book it was? Well maybe not all the footage.

Scott Ruhl
01-09-2007, 12:53 PM
Kind of on topic - But I always wanted to see footage of the guy who made that bomb he was planning to send to Bjork. I've read it's about 13 to 20 hours of him ranting to the camera, making a bomb hidden in a book then offing himself with a gun. Some of the footage was on the news like VH1 or something. I wonder what book it was? Well maybe not all the footage.

I think I've either seen a pic of dude talking but maybe I'm just dreaming I did. Maybe I saw some of the footage from VH1? He was a big guy wasn't he?

Robert J
01-09-2007, 01:11 PM
Yeah he was a big guy. The VH1 program (can't remember the name) was a show that featured a lot of weird music related stories like "Paul is Dead" and stuff like that. They did show some footage of him and his apartment. But obviously not him offing himself. I used to be bigger Bjork fan and having posession of the whole ordeal on tape would be kind of cool.

Man I'm just remembering all this stuff, I should collect my thoughts before I type so as to to not inadvertantly contridict myself.

Scott Ruhl
01-09-2007, 02:50 PM
Man I'm just remembering all this stuff, I should collect my thoughts before I type so as to to not inadvertantly contridict myself.

It's alright, you're not under oath or anything. :)

Andy Copp
01-09-2007, 04:09 PM
There was a show on Spike recently about celebrity stalkers that showed a lot of the bjork stalker video, its pretty disturbing stuff. Appearently the guy taped like 18 hours of video over a month period and we can see him slowly self destruction the whole time. They don't show the suicide but they showed leeading up to it.