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Michael Elliott
12-11-2002, 05:39 PM
Did any of you guys read the quote from Miramax's Harvey Winstein (sp?)? Anyway, as many of you know Miramax now owns the rights to many Asian films and are hacking them to pieces. A group sent in thousands of letters asking for the films to be left alone (uncut) and Winstein said:

"It's not like I enjoy editing film but someone has to fix this shit".

Just thought you'd like to know.

Bill Pissott
12-11-2002, 05:40 PM
Now why doesn't that statement surprise me???

Ian Jane
12-11-2002, 05:45 PM
Mirmax should be ashamed of the way that they treat Asian films. It's seriously quite disgusting. This has been going on for awhile now and I'd hoped that they'd wise up.

Yet another reason why you need a region free player.

Michael Elliott
12-11-2002, 05:50 PM
I'm not a HUGE Asian fan myself (yet) but I certainly don't want to see ANY genre treated this way. With this comment it's pretty easy to see that things aren't going to change.

Ian Jane
12-11-2002, 05:55 PM
Exactly. They've ruined quite a few releases that they've imported from HK, and why the hell do the feel the need to retitle most of their stuff? Probably to sell more copies (people might think it's a different film or something), but it's annoying.

scott favareille
12-11-2002, 06:00 PM
This Miramax comment does not suprise me at all. The way they treat HK films is a bunch of crap. I do not buy any of their HK stuff. Instead I buy from a HK DVD dealer who imports them from HK. A lot of the stuff available is all region & NTSC as well. (Although some are now going the R3 route, so I am breaking down to buy an all-region DVD player.)

Examples of Miramax Butchery:
Operation Condor 1 & 2--The original HK titles are Armour of God(for 2) and Armour of God 2:Operation Condor(for 1)--Miramax made a stupid decision of calling #2 a "prequel" to #1 and releasing it later. (Of course #1 was released first overseas. Got that?) Also both films were hacked by about 20 minutes each in US release plus have horrid dubbing.
The numerous Jet Li films that they have released with poor dubbing and bad hack-up jobs.

Can you imagine what they want to do now with The Killer and Hard Boiled(they own the US rights to them now)? Oh, god.

Ian Jane
12-11-2002, 06:02 PM
They've already stated that they're going to be doing some editing to The Killer. Get the current R1 release while you still can! Or the R2 HKL edition.

Al Edwards
12-11-2002, 08:32 PM
Well, Miramax have reached their most arrogant and most obxious state to date . To think that they will do some nasty things in the editing room to The Killer is a real shame. Makes me think of the line spoken by CYF("I always save the last bullet for myself or my enemy."(Miramax perhaps)

Michael Elliott
12-12-2002, 09:11 AM
I noticed a HARD BOILED/THE KILLER double-pack at Best Buy. I think it was from Fox, so would these be good editions to buy?

John G.
12-12-2002, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by Michael Elliott
"It's not like I enjoy editing film but someone has to fix this shit".
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH!!!

Studio numbscullery at it's best! This is classic!!! :D

Ian Jane
12-12-2002, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by Michael Elliott
I noticed a HARD BOILED/THE KILLER double-pack at Best Buy. I think it was from Fox, so would these be good editions to buy?

Yeah, unless you wanna shell out mondo cash for the Criterion Editions. There's also a Hong Kong Legends edition of the Killer (I don't know if they did Hardboiled or not) but the Fox-Lorber ones are a good buy.

Michael Elliott
12-12-2002, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by Ian Jane
Yeah, unless you wanna shell out mondo cash for the Criterion Editions. There's also a Hong Kong Legends edition of the Killer (I don't know if they did Hardboiled or not) but the Fox-Lorber ones are a good buy.

No way will I pay for the Criterion discs. I'll go with the Fox discs as long as they're anamorphic. Where can I find these Hong Kong discs at? I've heard you mention then many times including those Bruce Lee films.

Ian Jane
12-12-2002, 02:31 PM
Hong Kong Legends is basically the Criterion of Asian Films, they do a great job. hkflix.com carries the line. They're from the UK, I think.

I have the Fox-Lorber ones at home, but I can't remember if they're anamorphic or not. I can check when I get home if you want.

Carl Perez
12-12-2002, 05:19 PM
So Miramax's notion of fixing all those old Jackie Chan movies was
to put lousy rap songs on the soundtrack?

Ian Jane
12-12-2002, 05:27 PM
I don't think Mirmax touched any of the old Chan films. Columbia has been releasing a bunch of them though, and has done a very nice job with them.

Carl Perez
12-12-2002, 05:58 PM
MIramax put out SUPERCOP and OPERATION CONDOR.

Ian Jane
12-12-2002, 06:27 PM
You're right! I don't have those versions though, I have the imports. Did they really mess with the soundtracks on them?

Carl Perez
12-12-2002, 06:35 PM
Yup. Makes you think they only listen to hip-hop in Hong Kong.

Ian Jane
12-12-2002, 06:43 PM
That's fucking terrible. Have you seen the trailer for the US release of Shaolin Soccer? It's retitled Kung Fu Soccer, has 'Everybody Was Kung Fu Fighting' playing over it, and is apparantly 20 minutes shorter than the HK version. Oh, and it's dubbed.

I'm not sure what they think they're doing.

ROBERT BLACK
12-12-2002, 10:10 PM
His comments reflect his contempt for foreign films altogether. He also cut the Italian film Cinema Paradiso, by around half an hour.

ROBERT BLACK
12-13-2002, 04:19 PM
I could've swore there was a comment right here by Jubei.

Ian Jane
12-13-2002, 04:23 PM
I didn't remove it.

Al Edwards
12-13-2002, 05:02 PM
Makes me cringe to think how Miramax will treat Bullet in the Head.

J Dewey Wallis
12-14-2002, 02:05 PM
Now, of course I whole heartedly disagree with the edit/dub/maligning to death of Asian films that The Mouse and Co. keep perpetuating, but... Harvey does have a big foul mouth, and I can see his statement being taken out of context. He is a foreign film lover (and unfortunately also a bullheaded businessman, hence the thought he needs to butcher sometimes), and he may have said "shit" just referring to the general hassle. You know like if you were a video game programmer looking at lines of code "I've gotta’ finish this shit." and such.

I think that may have been the gist of what he was meaning, not that he thinks Asian films are bad... Or maybe those negative audience screenings of Legend of Zu finally broke him down.

Ian Jane
12-14-2002, 03:06 PM
Either way, Mirimax still has their heads up their asses when it comes to their treatment of these films.

J Dewey Wallis
12-15-2002, 01:26 PM
Agreed, wholeheartedly.

Michael Elliott
12-15-2002, 01:36 PM
The problem is that Miramax is a business and they must sell these films. The same with people editing those Fulci and Argento films in the 1980's. They had to make them more American. Hell, Franco producer's have done a lot worse to him in trying to get the movie into as many markets as possible.

I'm really not sure who Miramax is trying to sell to though.

Ian Jane
12-16-2002, 03:09 PM
That's just it. Is it a good business move? The people who aren't into subtitles or whatever are just as likely to not be into an 'Asian' film to begin with, and by messing with it, those who are into this stuff are going to go ahead and get the imports instead of the domestic releases, as the domestics are going to be all mangeled.

Betsy Young
12-18-2002, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by Michael Elliott
I'm not a HUGE Asian fan myself (yet) but I certainly don't want to see ANY genre treated this way. With this comment it's pretty easy to see that things aren't going to change.

I have to agree you here, Mike. I'm certainly not a big Asian film fan but to see ANY genre butchered is extremely deplorable to me. Films should be seen the way the filmmakers wanted them to be seen and audiences should be allowed to judge for themselves what films they want to see. Harvey should be shot in the head and then ran over a few hundred times for this travisty. Worse case of censorship I've ever heard of. GRRRRR!:mad:

Michael Elliott
12-18-2002, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by Goblingoddess
I have to agree you here, Mike. I'm certainly not a big Asian film fan but to see ANY genre butchered is extremely deplorable to me. Films should be seen the way the filmmakers wanted them to be seen and audiences should be allowed to judge for themselves what films they want to see. Harvey should be shot in the head and then ran over a few hundred times for this travisty. Worse case of censorship I've ever heard of. GRRRRR!:mad:

Sadly these days are over. A studio isn't going to give $150 million dollar budget then $30 in promotional material only to have the director tell a "story". Again, movie's today are ALL about the opening weekend, which is rather sad.

IAN---I really don't know. I never really understood why in the early 80's horror movies (released straight to video) would have the gore cut out. Most of the Fulci films were missing gore, which is rather strange considering that's why they were selling the films. Many Franco films had sex/gore/nudity removed for reasons that I'm not sure. It was even worse because they'd take a rather clean Franco film and add hardcore sex scenes are gut-munching zombies, which didn't belong there.

They are saying "fuck you" to the fans, perhaps because they are a small number? Do you think Miramax hopes these catch on with the mainstream crowd where they could sell more tickets?

Hans Adams
12-18-2002, 10:44 PM
I think it also goes with the assumption that they think most fans first saw Jet Li in LW4, Chow Yun Fat in the Replacement Killers, and Jackie Chan's first movie was Rumble in The Bronx. I can understand (yet still not tolerate) cutting out some of the humor which appeals mainly to Cantonese speakers and people of Chinese cultural origin. Another thing, I think Harvey Weinstein knows there is a strong group of fans that buy their dvds from HK and go out of our way to buy subtitled, complete editions. I think he wants to appeal to the fans at Best Buy or Wal-Mart, who might see Jet Li on the cover of a dvd, and say "Hey, LW4 and Romeo Must Die or The One was pretty cool. This one might be cool, too." When Drunken Master 2 was released here, as Legend of the Drunken Master or something like that, I had already owned the Tai Seng tape for awhile and then went out of my way to get the Thackral dvd from HK. Harvey W. knows this about HK fans and he's just trying to stretch a buck from Asian actors (and directors) work in America.

Ian Jane
12-19-2002, 11:05 AM
OK, that makes sense from a business perspective and I think you've probably hit the nail on the head there, but as a fan, it still pisses me off :)

scott favareille
12-19-2002, 11:05 AM
A reason why horror films were hacked in the early 1980's(especially Fulci & Argento stuff) had a lot to do with attempts at censoring "video nasties" (a phrase used for gory & slasher films) in several states, most notably Missouri & Georgia. The Missouri law, if it had passed, was to be the strictest. Slaher films there would have been handled like pornography as far as prosectution was concerned, with possible arrests & jail time. (Missouri had strict laws against pornography.) The Georgia law would have been targeted more at video stores who rented/sold violent material to minors, again punishment would have been fines &/or jail time. Several other states had talked about laws, but the failure of passing the laws in Missouri & Georgia ended that.

bbfarmer
12-19-2002, 12:05 PM
I'd be interested to know where that "quote" came from. While I have no love for Harvey Weinstein, that statement smacks of something someone on the internet would have just made up, so that it would spread on boards like this one.

Ian Jane
12-19-2002, 01:22 PM
That's entirely possible and it's likely been taken out of context, but that doesn't change the fact that M has been treating their Asian aqquisitions poorly.

Michael Elliott
12-19-2002, 04:54 PM
It was posted in the news section at the IMDB and several other newspapes picked it up including Variety and Entertainment Tonight.

Jeff Nelson
12-24-2002, 01:14 AM
Is this the quote you're talking about, Michael?

From the IMDB:

"I'm not cutting for fun," he told the New Yorker's Ken Auletta. "I'm cutting for the s*** to work. All my life I served one master: the film. I love movies."

Now, to be fair, if that's the quote you're referring to, it's not quite as bad as your misquote. He's obviously using the word "shit" here as "stuff". Not that it artistically excuses him one iota for doing what he's doing...it's so great that his love for SHAOLIN SOCCER caused him to cut 20 minutes out of it so that it will work...

Ian Jane
12-24-2002, 10:35 AM
His love for Shaolin Soccer caused me to order the import :)

Michael Elliott
12-26-2002, 12:45 PM
That's one but there was another where he directly said that Asian films are shit and that's why they had to cut them for this country. Looking at their record, I seriously doubt he has a very high opinion on them.

Scott Crum
12-26-2002, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by Ian Jane
Hong Kong Legends is basically the Criterion of Asian Films, they do a great job. hkflix.com carries the line. They're from the UK, I think.

I have the Fox-Lorber ones at home, but I can't remember if they're anamorphic or not. I can check when I get home if you want.

I Agree 100% with Ian's assessment. I own all the Bruce Lee discs and IRON MONKEY (the domestic release is cut during the fight scenes!!!!) and they are fantastic.

Scott

Jim Fortner
01-02-2003, 11:19 AM
I wouldn't care very much about Miramax et al cutting and dubbing their Asian releases if they would not interfere with imports of uncut/undubbed foreign releases -- I haven't been collecting in this genre long, but I think that I noticed that when some of these movies came out in "Official R1" releases that the HK distributors were required to stop offering their R0 "originals", isn't that right? I'm thinking or Drunken Master 2 etc.

Now, if you want to sell to mainstream America but let me get the imports if I want to do so, that is one thing. If you want to restrict R1 to just your release, then that is another thing all together!

Ian Jane
01-02-2003, 11:37 AM
Good point. It's for that very reason that you can't get the import versions of stuff like Shaolin Soccer and Chinese Ghost Story in the US anymore (at least you aren't supposed to be able to).

Jeff Nelson
01-02-2003, 01:00 PM
Yeah, but luckily we can just order them direct from Hong Kong via DDDHouse.com and other such entities, and much cheaper than from Stateside outfits like HKFlix.com and Poker Industries, even including airmail shipping! FUCK YOU DISNEY.

Jim Fortner
01-02-2003, 05:10 PM
I noticed that the website for dddhouse.com isn't working right? I typed in a couple of titles for searches and it just comes back to the main page. Also, when I went to HKChinese index, only "A" is available and clicking on links doesn't seem to work....

I hope this is just temporary!

Ian Jane
01-02-2003, 05:15 PM
It probably is, they've been doing a bunch of site redesign work for the last week or so.

Al Edwards
02-19-2005, 07:35 PM
What happened to Miramax's plans to release The Killer, Hard-Boiled, and Bullet in the Head? Do they still own the US rights, and has John Woo had a say on the way he wants them released on R1 DVD?